OSAS= House Built on Sand

[Endoscopy]

What about the billion Muslims that think their Mohammad laid out the path to salvation? What about these billions of Catholics that think they are saved? Are you going to witness to them and give them their chance to serve Jesus? Will they believe you? What about Hindus? Buddhas?

How are they to start looking for God when they think they have already found Him? I do not believe that everyone earnestly seeking God will find Him. Let's quit arguing over the lesser points of how to serve God and start studying scripture on God's salvation plan. Keep the following scripture in mind:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Read it in AMPC. This translation gives the multiple meanings of the original language words. In this case the words believe in. The extra meanings add

John 3 AMPC Amplified Classic
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

 

[UnderGrace]

My comment about Ralph's statement is that I believe all (believer and unbeliever alike) have been given "faith". I believe we're born with faith and I believe faith is an inherent attribute of humankind ... just like our intellect and our emotions and senses.

I do not believe the question is "Do you have faith?" I believe the question is "In Whom do you place your faith?"

The faith in the person who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) remains weak.

The faith in the person who does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness becomes strengthened as God works within the believer to bring increase.

Therefore, those who reject God are without excuse (Rom 1:20) because God has given to all mankind that which is needed for mankind to not reject (suppress the truth in unrighteousness).

I think this sums it up nicely.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

There is a difference between repentance to salvation and repentance for forgiveness of sins.

Repentance unto salvation is a one-time turning to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in which we confess with our mouth Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10). At that moment in time, we are born again. We receive remission of sins and the gift of Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

Once we are born again and if we find that we have sinned, we are instructed to confess our sins.

After we are born again, we don't "repent unto salvation" over and over and over each time we sin.

We "repent" of our actions which resulted in our being drawn away from the fellowship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and our Father God. We then confess our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). At that point fellowship is restored. We do not need restoration of sonship. When we sin, we're still sons of God by birth (born again).

than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance

You do know that the "ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance" as one point in the past had repented, yes?

Romans 3:26 tells us God is just and He is the justifier of all those believe in Jesus … PERIOD

 

[Endoscopy]

This site kept twitching around when I was trying to edit the post. Also typing gets way ahead of the showing what is typed.

AMPC version adds depth to the word believe in John 3:16.

 

[Endoscopy]

OSAS
Who is going to take them out of His hand?

John 10 AMPC
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.

 

[justpassinthrough]

We are talking about sheep and not goats. The sheep are saved before they are born, but they do wonder off during their life and the Shepherd needs to look for them.

The sheep are saved before they are born?


Chapter and verse please. ?


Do the lost sheep need to be saved?



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

There is a difference between repentance to salvation and repentance for forgiveness of sins.

Repentance unto salvation is a one-time turning to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in which we confess with our mouth Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10). At that moment in time, we are born again. We receive remission of sins and the gift of Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

Once we are born again and if we find that we have sinned, we are instructed to confess our sins.

After we are born again, we don't "repent unto salvation" over and over and over each time we sin.

We "repent" of our actions which resulted in our being drawn away from the fellowship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and our Father God. We then confess our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). At that point fellowship is restored. We do not need restoration of sonship. When we sin, we're still sons of God by birth (born again).








You do know that the "ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance" as one point in the past had repented, yes?

Romans 3:26 tells us God is just and He is the justifier of all those believe in Jesus … PERIOD

Do the lost sheep need to be saved?


JPT

 

[Seohce]

There is a difference between repentance to salvation and repentance for forgiveness of sins.

Repentance unto salvation is a one-time turning to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in which we confess with our mouth Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10). At that moment in time, we are born again. We receive remission of sins and the gift of Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

Once we are born again and if we find that we have sinned, we are instructed to confess our sins.

After we are born again, we don't "repent unto salvation" over and over and over each time we sin.

We "repent" of our actions which resulted in our being drawn away from the fellowship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and our Father God. We then confess our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). At that point fellowship is restored. We do not need restoration of sonship. When we sin, we're still sons of God by birth (born again).








You do know that the "ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance" as one point in the past had repented, yes?

Romans 3:26 tells us God is just and He is the justifier of all those believe in Jesus … PERIOD

To the Church in Sardis
3 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God.
4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

IS IT CYNICAL AND BIASED ÀS SOME IN HERE TRIES TO SUGGEST, THAT "THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT"?
...THAT THEY ARE GOOD EXAMPLES OF THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER AND THE SEED WHERE CERTAIN TYPES OF BELIEVERS HEARD AND RECEIVED THE WORD THEN FALL AWAY.

hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and WHO HAVE FALLEN AWAY, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

AM I JUST SPECULATING THAT ÀNANIAS AND SAPPHIRA LIED TO THE HOLY SPIRIT?

acts 5
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

ISN'T IT THAT NO LIARS SHALL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND;

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and AĹL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil,because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of Godappeared was to destroy the devil’s work.9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.(Ref: john 8:42-47)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do the lost sheep need to be saved?

Not "saved" as in salvation. The lost sheep does need to be found. That is why the Shepherd left the 99 until He found the 1 lost. The 1 lost belongs to the Shepherd.

The 1 lost was part of the same flock as the 99 until it wandered.

 

[PennEd]

Well, I definitely do not think you boast, there have been a few on here that have come close according to boasting by what they have written but that was a while ago.

I will admit I was very tempted in my youth to feel boastful about my election at times which eventually made me feel very sad that I was chosen and not others.

I was speaking about myself and my experience that's all.
It was not about you knowing Calvin or other writers it was about me rejecting some, not all of what they teach especially regarding predestination.

When I read and looked at the other side, more like how Roger and Nehemiah understand the scripture I felt a burden lifted knowing that God calls all and all can believe and accept the gift, total inability is an exaggeration of the text in my view.
I do not believe God gave me faith, or regenerated me prior to my conversion, I do believe He removed the veil that held my eyes as He will do for anyone who earnestly seeks Him.

I am just discussing it is not personal, I try do to not make it sound personal, obviously I need to try harder.

There is only one doctrine that becomes more personal for me is that is that the born again believer is assured of their salvation apart from any works or lack of works.

There is much here I can choose to focus on that I disagree with. Fortunately for you, I was predestined not to focus on that! LOL

I do have to say, that just recently it has dawned on me the more severe a Prodigal one is, the MORE likely one is to believe God chooses His Children and not the other way around. Slayer, Depleted(Lynn), Angela, and others that have told of their Prodigal journey back to the Lord are ALL absolutely convinced that it was the Lord that drew them back and chose them. I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule, just a general observation.

I didn't use to think that way, but as I look back at my horrific Prodigal journey, and at one time even thought that I had lost Salvation forever because of that journey, when I couldn't bear to hear an utterance about the Lord, when a Christian song playing as I scanned the radio sent me into a sickly panic, when I had NO desire because of fear and didn't even try to seek Him, HE CAME AND FOUND ME!!!

Somehow He drew me back to Him, and I found myself on my knees praying to Him, I don't even remember what I was praying. Mind you this was after almost a decade of no Church, no Bible reading, no fellowship, no prayer... no hope, He came to me in what was a split second, that resonates to this day. It was an indescribable peace and joy we were at the Shore I think, and He said "Ed, ALL of your sins have been forgiven". From that moment on I have grown in the Lord in both love for Him, and love for others.

So I can never be convinced again that He didn't choose me or, as we are in ENTIRE agreement with each other, that I could lose my Salvation.

 

[UnderGrace]

There is much here I can choose to focus on that I disagree with. Fortunately for you, I was predestined not to focus on that! LOL

I do have to say, that just recently it has dawned on me the more severe a Prodigal one is, the MORE likely one is to believe God chooses His Children and not the other way around. Slayer, Depleted(Lynn), Angela, and others that have told of their Prodigal journey back to the Lord are ALL absolutely convinced that it was the Lord that drew them back and chose them. I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule, just a general observation.

I didn't use to think that way, but as I look back at my horrific Prodigal journey, and at one time even thought that I had lost Salvation forever because of that journey, when I couldn't bear to hear an utterance about the Lord, when a Christian song playing as I scanned the radio sent me into a sickly panic, when I had NO desire because of fear and didn't even try to seek Him, HE CAME AND FOUND ME!!!

Somehow He drew me back to Him, and I found myself on my knees praying to Him, I don't even remember what I was praying. Mind you this was after almost a decade of no Church, no Bible reading, no fellowship, no prayer... no hope, He came to me in what was a split second, that resonates to this day. It was an indescribable peace and joy we were at the Shore I think, and He said "Ed, ALL of your sins have been forgiven". From that moment on I have grown in the Lord in both love for Him, and love for others.

So I can never be convinced again that He didn't choose me or, as we are in ENTIRE agreement with each other, that I could lose my Salvation.

Everyone's testimony is unique for sure, God deals with us as individuals and He does indeed work in mysterious ways!!

 

[lightbearer]

Jesus is the main Shepherd but you can't approach Him, .

Oh to the Contrary.
For we are now in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Through the Veil; that is to say His flesh. The Holy of Holies; The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. Christ in us the hope of Glory. We are dead nevertheless we live; yet not us but Christ lives in us, and the life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of God. So let's say not in our hearts, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Law; the word in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Law; the word in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Christ; the Law in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak. The circumcision made without hands) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach. The anointing which we have received of him abideth in us, and we need not that any man teach us: but as the same anointing teacheth us of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught us, ye shall abide in him. The Spirit of truth, he will guide us into all truth. Yet we still have a need? LORD we believe; thank you helping our unbelief!


(Rom 10:4-8; 1Jn 2:27)

 

[Endoscopy]

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. The evidence of the faith is works. Works do not save us but provide proof of our faith. At that point we all can take comfort in the promise of Jesus. This promise is OSAS.

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
31 Again the Jews brought up stones to stone Him.
32 Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me?

 

[mailmandan]

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. The evidence of the faith is works. Works do not save us but provide proof of our faith. At that point we all can take comfort in the promise of Jesus. This promise is OSAS.

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
31 Again the Jews brought up stones to stone Him.
32 Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me?

Amen! Salvation is absolutely by grace through faith in Jesus and is not by works. Works are the fruit of salvation but never the root of it. Salvation is not by "grace plus law, faith plus works" as taught by certain misguided teachers of the law.

Romans 10:5 - For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."

 

[notuptome]

There is much here I can choose to focus on that I disagree with. Fortunately for you, I was predestined not to focus on that! LOL

I do have to say, that just recently it has dawned on me the more severe a Prodigal one is, the MORE likely one is to believe God chooses His Children and not the other way around. Slayer, Depleted(Lynn), Angela, and others that have told of their Prodigal journey back to the Lord are ALL absolutely convinced that it was the Lord that drew them back and chose them. I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule, just a general observation.

I didn't use to think that way, but as I look back at my horrific Prodigal journey, and at one time even thought that I had lost Salvation forever because of that journey, when I couldn't bear to hear an utterance about the Lord, when a Christian song playing as I scanned the radio sent me into a sickly panic, when I had NO desire because of fear and didn't even try to seek Him, HE CAME AND FOUND ME!!!

Somehow He drew me back to Him, and I found myself on my knees praying to Him, I don't even remember what I was praying. Mind you this was after almost a decade of no Church, no Bible reading, no fellowship, no prayer... no hope, He came to me in what was a split second, that resonates to this day. It was an indescribable peace and joy we were at the Shore I think, and He said "Ed, ALL of your sins have been forgiven". From that moment on I have grown in the Lord in both love for Him, and love for others.

So I can never be convinced again that He didn't choose me or, as we are in ENTIRE agreement with each other, that I could lose my Salvation.

Do you really believe that God does not minister and call every human heart to Himself? God loves every soul He has created with that same tender love that you felt in your heart.

God is not a Calvinist nor is God a universalist.

All of heaven rejoices when a single soul comes to repentance in Christ. Every soul is loved with a great love. That is why it is so heart breaking to see even a single soul perish lost into eternity.

Calvinism is a convenient way to avoid the burden we ought to have for the lost. Calvinism avoids personal responsibility for sin and evades the burden to win lost souls.

I rejoice that you have come to know the Lord as your personal Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[justpassinthrough]

Not "saved" as in salvation. The lost sheep does need to be found. That is why the Shepherd left the 99 until He found the 1 lost. The 1 lost belongs to the Shepherd.

The 1 lost was part of the same flock as the 99 until it wandered.

Not saved as in salvation?

Now you are redefining salvation of the lost.


Based on the words of the Bible, the lost are sinners in need of repentance for salvation.


likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


Lost people need to repent in order to be saved.


JPT

 

[Slayer]

The sheep are saved before they are born?


Chapter and verse please. ?


Do the lost sheep need to be saved?



JPT

There's around a 100 verses proving predestination, I thought you believed the Bible. Of' course we need to be saved, go read your Bible!

 

[dcontroversal]

There's around a 100 verses proving predestination, I thought you believed the Bible. Of' course we need to be saved, go read your Bible!

God must have failed with the many hey?....MANY are called, but FEW CHOSEN!

Why would God call MANY if only the FEW were Predestined? Does that not seem kind of like the carrot and stick routine.....God does not UPBRAID according to JAMES so he would NOT call someone and then YANK the carrot away like Elmer Fudd.......

 

[Slayer]

Oh to the Contrary.
For we are now in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Through the Veil; that is to say His flesh. The Holy of Holies; The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. Christ in us the hope of Glory. We are dead nevertheless we live; yet not us but Christ lives in us, and the life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of God. So let's say not in our hearts, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Law; the word in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Law; the word in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Christ; the Law in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak. The circumcision made without hands) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach. The anointing which we have received of him abideth in us, and we need not that any man teach us: but as the same anointing teacheth us of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught us, ye shall abide in him. The Spirit of truth, he will guide us into all truth. Yet we still have a need? LORD we believe; thank you helping our unbelief!


(Rom 10:4-8; 1Jn 2:27)

This is not applicable to sheep and shepherds, you can't have Christ. Have you already forgotten that He said "where I go you cannot come" He is seated at the right side of His father and you ARE RIGHT HERE IN THIS FALLEN WORLD!!!!!

CHRIST IS NOT YOUR BUDDY, HE IS YOUR GOD!

 

[Slayer]

God must have failed with the many hey?....MANY are called, but FEW CHOSEN!

Why would God call MANY if only the FEW were Predestined? Does that not seem kind of like the carrot and stick routine.....God does not UPBRAID according to JAMES so he would NOT call someone and then YANK the carrot away like Elmer Fudd.......

Yeah, funny that we can make the Bible say anything we want it to. Nobody has been able to break the encrypted code of the bible to date, so we will all run around confused until Christ returns and tells us what it all means