Religion Generates Evil

[LPT]

Is it possible that religion through an unknown process produce more evil than good. I am just saying that because of all the scandals that have recently come out especially sexual scandals. These are not a few people but large scale organized rapes! For example, it looks like every catholic priest is an abuser and all bishops approved that (may be even the pope). When I see that I am ashamed to be a christian. Why does something that is supposed to make us good, produce so much evil?

I can understand what you mean, IMO I think if a person is doing evil then satan is kicked back in a lawn chair sipping on ice tea. The minute a person desires to turn their life around, he spills his tea and gets up out of the lawn chair, it's a battle between good and evil.

 

[Dino246]

For the second time, I have nothing to hide. Do you?
Instead of "hate speech", I will broaden the goal post. "hate crime" instead. It seems to me you are defending Papou's ridiculous exaggerations. Exposed poop attracts flies.

What we should be doing is petitioning all the prosecutors and the judges. Christians of all flavors are being hauled to court on charges of "hate crimes". We can tell them the charges are "completely subjective and therefore meaningless". The difference between being charged in court for being a Christian and attacks on Catholicism is profound, and so are the similarities.

Yes, I moved the goal post, but just one of them.

Those who attack with lies and falsehoods are scourging their own Body, and invincible ignorance keeps them from realizing it.

Those who try to divert attention from very real problems in any way are committing the same wrong as those who cover up the heinous activities. "Nothing to see here, folks! Look over there... what horrid things are they doing?"

Please go and find out what a tu quoque fallacy is. Then stop using it.

If you want to defend Catholicism by pointing fingers at others, it's not going to fly.

 

[epostle]

Irrelevant. Own the Catholic garbage first, and if you want to accuse others, do it in a separate context.

I didn't attack your faith with lies and falsehoods. I don't deny all the "Catholic garbage" for what is/was there, you deny adding wood to the stake fires.
What you are trying to prove will never work. It's a senseless discussion; it backfires on the accusers. Proving which church has the most sinners in it is stupid. Objective facts, empirical statistics, hard evidence cannot heal blind prejudice. That's the job of the Holy Spirit.

 

[epostle]

Shameful, embarrassing and painful scandals. The worst crisis in Church history.

• We know from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice investigation into this matter that almost all of the cases of the sexual abuse of minors that took place in Catholic institutions occurred between 1965 and 1985. By contrast, in the last five years, the average number of credible accusations made against 40,000 priests is exactly .004%. Quite frankly, there is no entity in the United States today, private or public, that can match this record..
  
  The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:
  has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;
  
• has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;
  
• has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse;
  
• has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests;
  
• has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they will be heard";
• 
  
• has conducted annual independent audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the groundbreaking 2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
  - has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts, child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine any claims of abuse against priests.

No other organization (including yours) even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth. Catholic sex abuse facts :: Fast Facts from TheMediaReport.com <not a Catholic site

 

[epostle]

The latest audit of the Catholic clergy involved in the sexual abuse of minors shows that there were two new substantiated cases made during the period of July 1, 2015 through June 30, 2016 against 52,238 priests and deacons. That comes to .004 percent of the clergy.

Though the report does not mention it, we know of no other institution in the United States, secular or religious, which has a better record than the Catholic Church today when it comes to the sexual abuse of minors by adult employees.

There was a total of twenty-five new allegations made by minors during this one-year time period. Of that number, two were substantiated; eight were still being investigated; eleven were unsubstantiated or unable to be proven; two were referred to a religious order; one was referred to a diocese; and one investigation had to be postponed.

Overall, a total of 728 allegations were made in the year of the study, almost all from previous years. Most of the alleged offenders—80 percent of them—are either dead, already removed from ministry, or missing.

As always, almost 8 in 10 of the victims were male (78%), and the vast majority (85%) were postpubescent. (teenagers)

This report, as well as all previous reports, fails to draw the obvious conclusion: The sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church has been driven largely by homosexuals (though over the past year thirteen of the alleged new victims were male, and twelve were female). The reasons for not facing up to this fact cannot be justified on the basis of science.
.004% OF CLERGY GUILTY OF ABUSE

The report mentions that sixteen priests or deacons were returned to ministry over the year the audit was conducted. We need to know more about them. Were there sixteen different lawyers who sued them, or did a few lawyers do most of the suing? What happened, if anything, to the accusers? Are some of them recidivists, accusers from previous years? Most important, how are these maligned priests doing now that they have been returned to ministry?

These questions are never asked, never mind answered. True victims of sexual abuse deserve our compassion and aid, but so do priests and deacons who have had their reputations damaged, if not ruined, by false claims.

 

[LPT]

Shameful, embarrassing and painful scandals. The worst crisis in Church history.

• We know from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice investigation into this matter that almost all of the cases of the sexual abuse of minors that took place in Catholic institutions occurred between 1965 and 1985. By contrast, in the last five years, the average number of credible accusations made against 40,000 priests is exactly .004%. Quite frankly, there is no entity in the United States today, private or public, that can match this record..
  
  The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:
  has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;
• has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;
  
• has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse;
  
• has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests;
  
• has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they will be heard";
• 
  
• has conducted annual independent audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the groundbreaking 2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
  - has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts, child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine any claims of abuse against priests.

No other organization (including yours) even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth. Catholic sex abuse facts :: Fast Facts from TheMediaReport.com <not a Catholic site

These things are very horrendous but the worst crisis in church history that would be up against the Spanish Inquisition or the latter part of the Christian crusades probably to decide which one is the worst would be quite the debate.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why does something that is supposed to make us good, produce so much evil?

You have to go back to the parable of the wheat and the tares. It is the enemy who sows the tares, and Satan took control of the Roman Catholic Church since its inception.

The latest shocking report about over 300 predator priests in Pennsylvania being protected by their bishops over a long period of time is the tip of the iceberg.

And indeed it makes every Christians ashamed that these men are parading about in the name of Christ instead of facing the death penalty for crimes against innocent children.

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

Is it possible that religion through an unknown process produce more evil than good. I am just saying that because of all the scandals that have recently come out especially sexual scandals. These are not a few people but large scale organized rapes! For example, it looks like every catholic priest is an abuser and all bishops approved that (may be even the pope). When I see that I am ashamed to be a christian. Why does something that is supposed to make us good, produce so much evil?

We are only called to follow and build upon a foundation already laid. No denomination is the "mother church" as the RCC likes to call itself. Following the foundation is our only TRUE Salvation.
Christ Our Foundation
1Corinthians 3:10-15

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.

BE CAREFUL HOW WE BUILD. We know wood , hay and straw can not withstand the fire of the Holy Spirit, it burns. There is nothing left to save when this is burnt. Silver, and gold go through the fire and when made molten the dross separates leaving behind that which is worth keeping. Precious gems pass through the fire like passing through warm milk, NO burning, though silver and gold are worth keeping for the Lord Precious gems are of the highest worth. These are what men are before God. Their quality is proved by the Holy Spirit. Some souls are devoured along with their works forever (hay, wood and straw), some soul are silver and gold and the dross is burnt off and they pass through to heaven into the joy of the Father. Then some souls are precious gems. They go right through without a purging. I would say we should all strive to be precious gems and teach and live in God , like Christ , through Christ. Constant prayer and humility is in order. What men do outside of Truth is on them and it should not affect our Christianity. They are not the foundation , nor is any denomination, God Bless!

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

If Catholics spent less time arguing on Protestant sites...

All the present denominations are imperfect, we have the perfect way in the foundation, The Word ! Protestants . Catholics and Orthodox all have their false teachings . Men?.........well false shepherds are everywhere and we know them by their fruits. I have only one foundation Jesus Christ. When men stopping denomination thumping and simply apply the Word to all things in life that is all that remains, truth therefore prevails.

 

[Papou]

It seems to me you are defending Papou's ridiculous exaggerations. Exposed poop attracts flies.

This is not an exaggeration but was on the news of all channel networks a few days ago.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-church-sex-abuse-pennsylvania.html
Just google and you will see that the problem is spread all over the globe. I am not catholic but it hurts to see the name of Christ dishonoured by all those so called religious people.

 

[posthuman]

Any organization that gets big will have corruption in it. That is because of man's sinful nature. Any of these big organizations that put people in charge of our children are going to draw those that prey on them.

In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: ​

but he that refraineth his lips is wise.
(Proverbs 10:19)​

 

[posthuman]

This is not an exaggeration but was on the news of all channel networks a few days ago.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-church-sex-abuse-pennsylvania.html
Just google and you will see that the problem is spread all over the globe. I am not catholic but it hurts to see the name of Christ dishonoured by all those so called religious people.

can we do some simple math for a sec?

there are over 400,000 catholic priests spread out all over the globe.
what are the percentages and distribution of sinners among them?

what are the percentages and distribution of sinners among other world-wide collections of hundreds of thousands of people?
do you make the same conclusions about each?

 

[Nehemiah6]

can we do some simple math for a sec?

No we do not need this "simple" math. Even one priest pretending to be a servant of Christ while being a servant of Satan is too much.

And any numbers you throw around will be meaningless, since it is the perpetrators who generate those numbers. Does anyone really have a handle on this. For all you know 90% of those priests are corrupt. The Levitical priesthood had been thoroughly corrupted by the time of Christ, and the Catholic *priesthood* is a total sham. And a disgrace.

 

[Papou]

can we do some simple math for a sec?

there are over 400,000 catholic priests spread out all over the globe.
what are the percentages and distribution of sinners among them?

what are the percentages and distribution of sinners among other world-wide collections of hundreds of thousands of people?
do you make the same conclusions about each?

Replace the word sinners by sexual abusers in your questions and the answer clearly point to the priests.

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

can we do some simple math for a sec?

there are over 400,000 catholic priests spread out all over the globe.
what are the percentages and distribution of sinners among them?

what are the percentages and distribution of sinners among other world-wide collections of hundreds of thousands of people?
do you make the same conclusions about each?

Regardless of Religion , Region, Denomination, Creed , Color Ethnicity, culture, everyone, you will be judged upon what you build upon the foundation LIFE- existence. Christ is the Word and nothing came into being without Him.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


2 The same was in the beginning with God.


3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

He is King of kings and Lord of lords. All will be tested by His Holy Spirit, ALL MEN AND ALL THEIR DOINGS.
When made into the conformity of His image (His Word in us and us abiding) there is no one but Him to teach us.
Jeremiah 31:33-34
33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD, I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.

We who are of the end time Elect= end of the age assembly will be living Arks of His Covenant. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, get ready for the new Jericho -the walls are all coming down! A new season is upon us the season of Rev.12

 

[Shamah]

Regardless of Religion , Region, Denomination, Creed , Color Ethnicity, culture, everyone, you will be judged upon what you build upon the foundation LIFE- existence. Christ is the Word and nothing came into being without Him.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


2 The same was in the beginning with God.


3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

He is King of kings and Lord of lords. All will be tested by His Holy Spirit, ALL MEN AND ALL THEIR DOINGS.
When made into the conformity of His image (His Word in us and us abiding) there is no one but Him to teach us.
Jeremiah 31:33-34
33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD, I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.

We who are of the end time Elect= end of the age assembly will be living Arks of His Covenant. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, get ready for the new Jericho -the walls are all coming down! A new season is upon us the season of Rev.12

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

ALso the Catholic Church is the harlot that rides the beast in Revelation, anyone that expects anything from them other tham lies and deception is not on the right path.

 

[posthuman]

No we do not need this "simple" math. Even one priest pretending to be a servant of Christ while being a servant of Satan is too much.

And any numbers you throw around will be meaningless, since it is the perpetrators who generate those numbers. Does anyone really have a handle on this. For all you know 90% of those priests are corrupt. The Levitical priesthood had been thoroughly corrupted by the time of Christ, and the Catholic *priesthood* is a total sham. And a disgrace.

for sure, it's too much -- "let it not once be named among you" -- but how does it compare to protestants? haven't there been tares from the beginning, and doesn't it also say, the love of many will grow cold, because iniquity abounds?

but the thing i was getting at is this, in the OP:

For example, it looks like every catholic priest is an abuser and all bishops approved that (may be even the pope).

which i should have cited in my reply earlier, i apologize

 

[posthuman]

Replace the word sinners by sexual abusers in your questions and the answer clearly point to the priests.

what's the % and distribution?
do the facts support what you said? 100% ?

i think, as believers, we should try to tell the truth. that's all
so let's find it!

 

[Papou]

what's the % and distribution?
do the facts support what you said? 100% ?

i think, as believers, we should try to tell the truth. that's all
so let's find it!

That is a good point. 300 out of how many for the Penn State! Can we interpolate it? These are good questions.

 

[LPT]

what's the % and distribution?
do the facts support what you said? 100% ?

i think, as believers, we should try to tell the truth. that's all
so let's find it!

From what I've read,

A handful of studies compiled by the Center for the Prevention of Sexual and Domestic Violence, some more than a decade old, suggest that up to 15 percent of clergy members in all religious groups have engaged in some inappropriate conduct, whether a stolen kiss or full-fledged sexual abuse. But few authoritative statistics are available on the number and type of complaints, and what information churches collect is usually kept secret.

I never have believed that it is just a Catholic problem, all denominations have same issues.