OSAS= House Built on Sand

[PennEd]

We cannot boast because we cannot secure our own salvation, believing/faith is not a work and it the same for everyone no does less or more to receive the gift therefore there is no boasting.

I find it interesting that faith in the Catholic tradition faith is given/infused by God to the person, this concept permeates their doctrine.

From a Greek scholar who I think is unbiased.

A.T. Robertson states: And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tautē, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex humōn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dōron) and not the result of our work.

This verse in Ephesians makes it clear that it is the person who believed.

Ephesians 1:13

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Also from notes although I do not have the citation,

Aside from the interpretive possibility of Ephesians 2:8, there seems scant biblical evidence that "faith" is a gift from God. When Paul holds up Abraham as an example of faith, he esteems Abraham’s personal and self generated faith. In another example where Jesus is conversing with Martha (John 11:25-27), Martha demonstrates a self generated belief of something that was true (Jesus as the Messiah).

Interestingly enough there is evidence Calvin did not consider faith the gift in Ephesians 2:8 although I have researched this so I cannot say with certainty.

Aside from this though, what Ralphie is stating that initial faith is a gift and then we have to maintain that gift of faith to be saved makes no sense.

Sorry, didn't see the scant evidence remark before.

So here is Jesus Christ Himself telling Peter that the faith He has to pronounce Jesus as the Son of God came directly from GOD.

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah,for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

 

[notuptome]

Well, I could care a less what John Calvin says one way or the other. Many of my beliefs on doctrine align with him, but some don't. Some of my beliefs align with Catholics, but most don't. A few of my beliefs align with Ralph, but many don't.

To be honest, I don't really care what a Greek scholar says either. I could probably find a Greek scholar for any rendering of any passage.

So think about the reluctance people have to attributing the gift of Faith God gives vs. THEM being the ones to muster the Faith. (WHERE DOES THAT FAITH COME FROM?!!!) When we get to the end of ourselves, in the final analysis, we understand that God ALONE saves us through Christ. It's probably the last hurdle of our flesh to want US to be the ones that chose Him, rather than Him choosing us.

The verse flat out says that the faith we have to believe is a gift from God. Paul is not expressing to us that men can boast about Grace. How is that even possible? Grace by it's very definition is UNEARNED merit and mercy. No. The boasting of men is about their FAITH. That's why it's so important to understand that the Faith is a gift, so you CAN'T boast. So NO ONE can boast that they chose Him.

Any faith that man would have would be faith like him and that would be flawed faith. God creates faith through His word and His Holy Spirit. Romans 10:17

The real question in this discussion must be does God create faith in every heart that hears His word or only special hearts? God reveals Himself through His word. This truth is made manifest by the Holy Spirit. Gods righteousness, Gods judgment on sin and Gods great mercy in Christ.

God cannot be arbitrary but holy and just in His dealings with men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnderGrace]

Sorry, didn't see the scant evidence remark before.

So here is Jesus Christ Himself telling Peter that the faith He has to pronounce Jesus as the Son of God came directly from GOD.

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah,for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Well, I never said that God does not reveal Himself for His purpose as in the case of Paul as well.

The logical conclusion of faith always being a gift from God is then God selects those He gifts this gift to..... making salvation only for those He selects and thereby denying others of any ability to be saved.
If you believe that way well then there is not much more I can say.

I do wonder though how you understand the verse "it is impossible to please God without faith?" Hebrews 11:6

 

[stonesoffire]

I thought I thoroughly made my point with scripture.



Christian’s who hate other Christian’s no longer have eternal life in them.




I accidentally deleted your question. My iPad does its own thing at times.

My point was if this one who hates ever was born again, then the flesh is circumcised from the spirit. It's the soul and a renewed mind that is ongoing saved. According to growth.

1. May not have learned to forgive. A spirit of error through teaching or even decision. God deals with it.
2.. A contaminated soul. Demonic attachment to body or soul even affecting one. Needs deliverance. Can defile the Spirit.
3. According to scripture, has not learned the great love of Father in giving His Son. Under a false teaching of guilt and condemnation.

It's the goodness of God that causes to repent. So what are we giving to others?

Hopefully, the mind of Christ (anointed words from His throne) and not our own thoughts.

 

[stonesoffire]

Think 8th day with the circumcision of the hand ( power) of God. This proclaims we are no longer a flesh or a man ruled by our own nature, but Spirit with a new way within, and the anointing both in and out. The comforter has come.

 

[stonesoffire]

Brother you repented and God forgave you.


There are millions of Christians believing they can live that way without repenting or confessing their sin and still be saved on the Day of Judgement.


Paul’s says it this way -


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Do you understand what “inherit the kingdom of God” means ?



JPT

Who do you know that God failed to save? He knows His own and saves to the uttermost!

 

[stonesoffire]

Hardships and trials of life tempt us to sin, or leave our trust in Christ altogether.



No, the seed is the word of God. And anyone from whom the word of God has been cast away is not saved:

" 9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide (continue) in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. " - 2 John 1:9

" 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life (eternal life-see vs.11)." - 1 John 5:12

You can't cast the word of God away from you because of trials and temptations and still have God in salvation. You would have to come back to God in repentance to be saved. And you can do that as long as he gives whatever space it is that he will give you to do that. But sooner or later he will not allow it. Israel is our illustration for that truth. There comes a time when God says, 'enough is enough, I've waited long enough'.

You lose your fire and first love if these circumstances happen and one looks at them and not to Jesus.

Believers have the Son and the Son has them.

He is not a harsh taskmaster.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi stonesofire,
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
(Php 3:12-17 KJV)

Those are good scriptures lightbearer. Increasing light....shining brighter and brighter as we "see" Jesus and we become like Him.

What do you call the high calling Lightbearer? What was Paul desiring?

 

[stonesoffire]

Lightbearer I know you study words too. I have one for you. You may already know this but just in case, look at the Word sprouts or sprout in the OT, and leaves in the NT. Leaves from the tree of life.

I'll give you a poem then if you'd like to read it.

 

[stonesoffire]

Tu Say, but who believes that a clock uses the sun and moon for keeping time, and if it did tell them what time it was then according to picture below what time would that be?

Spoiler: Just for stonesoffire

End time

Time is the measurement of the earth's rotation upon it axis but of course it is written in John 3:12, If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. .John 13:20

And God made two great lights;
the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night:
Genesis 1:16​

At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun,
shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. Acts 26:13

The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: Eccl 2:14
So what do you hear?​

I'm not sure where you are going with this so I'll just say that which I've seen.

The sun represents Jesus of course, and light is revelation truth about Him and His mission.

The moon represents opposition and is the symbol used by those teaching another Jesus. A prophet and not the very Son of God and Saviour Lord of His body on earth.

Darkness in the Word night in the beginning of Genesis means a twist away from light.

That which Satan does when he uses the word with a lie.

 

[stonesoffire]

Wish I had more time right now but will be back later.

 

[PennEd]

Well, I never said that God does not reveal Himself for His purpose as in the case of Paul as well.

The logical conclusion of faith always being a gift from God is then God selects those He gifts this gift to..... making salvation only for those He selects and thereby denying others of any ability to be saved.
If you believe that way well then there is not much more I can say.

I do wonder though how you understand the verse "it is impossible to please God without faith?" Hebrews 11:6

I agree. That is the logical HUMAN mind that has that understanding of God we all share. It just isn't right IMHO.

Not quite sure what you are driving at with Hebrews 11 in relation to faith being a gift from God.

Please answer the question though. If YOUR faith is not a gift from God where does it come from?

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree. That is the logical HUMAN mind that has that understanding of God we all share. It just isn't right IMHO.

Not quite sure what you are driving at with Hebrews 11 in relation to faith being a gift from God.

Please answer the question though. If YOUR faith is not a gift from God where does it come from?

To clarify, I am speaking about saving faith when we first hear the Gospel. I heard the gospel and I believed.

People are separated from God spiritually and yet can experience the convicting work of the Holy Spirit and can respond in faith by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. In this view faith is not seen as a meritorious work.

God does open hearts (or understanding) is not the same as giving her faith, Acts 16 in the case of Lydia does not say God gave her faith.
I also believe that faith being the instrument makes it non meritorious and therefore not a work.

 

[PennEd]

To clarify, I am speaking about saving faith when we first hear the Gospel. I heard the gospel and I believed.

People are separated from God spiritually and yet can experience the convicting work of the Holy Spirit and can respond in faith by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. In this view faith is not seen as a meritorious work.

God does open hearts (or understanding) is not the same as giving her faith, Acts 16 in the case of Lydia does not say God gave her faith.
I also believe that faith being the instrument makes it non meritorious and therefore not a work.

Why did you believe?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why did you believe?

Me, i did so Because i was convinced What gid was showing me was in my best interest, and apart from this gospel, i was without hope,

 

[Seohce]

I've been saying this all along. God gives the faith (the ability to know the gospel is true), so YOU can then believe it and be saved.

Look at your own words: "faith to believe". Say it again: "faith TO believe". One more time: "faith TO believe. God gives you the faith so YOU can then believe. He gives the ability to believe.....YOU do the believing. Many receive the faith to believe but reject it and choose not to believe. And some who believe later choose to reject what God has shown them to be true and they no longer believe. The Galatians did that. It's called 'choice'. You must choose to continue to believe the gospel in order to be saved when Jesus comes back.




No, GOD gives the ability to know the gospel really is true. I accept that truth into my heart and place my believing, my trust, in what I now know to be true and I am saved. And I will stay saved as long as I keep my trust in what God has shown me to be true.


God gives the ability to believe. I choose whether to then use that ability to believe and be saved.

Just knowing the gospel is true through God's supernatural gift of faith to know it is true isn't enough to be saved. You must then believe/trust in what you now know to be true in order to be saved. And you have to continue to believe/trust in what you now know to be true to remain saved.

AMEN.

The Parable of the talents
14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’

21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’

23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’

26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

 

[Seohce]

Me, i did so Because i was convinced What gid was showing me was in my best interest, and apart from this gospel, i was without hope,

2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

21 For everyone looks out for their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ.22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel

 

[Seohce]

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead.

If someone says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!

UNBELIEVER = walking dead and without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many self righteous, religious works that unbelievers attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to be saved by works.

3 “To the angel of the church in Sardiswrite:

These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

14 This is why it is said:

“wake up, sleeper,
RISE FROM THE DEAD,
and Christ will shine on you.”

11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Who do you know that God failed to save? He knows His own and saves to the uttermost!

God has indeed done His part.

He knows those who hear and obey Him.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


JPT

 

[UnderGrace]

Why did you believe?

I was told all my good works and being good were not going to land me in heaven since God requires perfection, the only one who was perfect here on earth was Jesus.

I believed because I wanted the relationship with God the person who was talking to me very clearly had, so I believed what was explained that Jesus was who I needed to have faith in personally to save me not my good works.

Not really so complicated, I did choose to believe, however it was not my belief that saved me it was who I was placing my faith in and His work.
I have seen many others choose to believe and I have seen others not choose to believe and suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
I have had friends not believe for years and then in a life crisis desire a relationship with God accept the gift of salvation.