Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

Romans 12: 2, Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.
This means to transform our minds by the work of the Holy spirit, back to the way Adams mind was before he sinned.

Hi pjharrison, such a powerful verse for the believer with the help of the Holy Spirit. Jesus restores our relationship with God the way it was before the fall; paradise lost - paradise found, praise God.

“Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth” John17:17

 

[Shamah]

None are saved by works, YHWH saves. But people can use the Messiah's blood as a door mat and thus be rejected by Yahshua/Jesus.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Hebrews 12:14, “Pursue peace with all, and pursue set-apartness without which no one shall see the Master.”

Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior YHWH into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

Luke 13:28, "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of Yah, but yourselves being thrown out.”

Jeremiah 6:16-17, “Thus said יהוה, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.” But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.”

Jeremiah 7:9-11, “Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, vow falsely, burn incense to Baal, follow hinder gods you know nothing of, And then come and stand before Me in this House upon which My Name is called, and say; We are saved! Saved to do all these abominations? Has this House, which is called with My Name, become a den of thieves in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen this! says YHWH.”

 

[BillG]

None are saved by works, YHWH saves. But people can use the Messiah's blood as a door mat and thus be rejected by Yahshua/Jesus.

Paul addressed this in the latter part of Romans 5 thru 6

Grace is not a license to sin.

Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior YHWH into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

Yahdah?

 

[Shamah]

Yahdah, Yahuda, Yehuda or Judah. The letter J did not exist until the 1600s, I prefer accuracy. Sames as "James" his real name was Yaaqob (Jacob) but "king James" wanted his name in the bible so Yaaqob becomes "James"

 

[BillG]

Yahdah, Yahuda, Yehuda or Judah. The letter J did not exist until the 1600s, I prefer accuracy. Sames as "James" his real name was Yaaqob (Jacob) but "king James" wanted his name in the bible so Yaaqob becomes "James"

Ok

Bear in mind that many people are not like you and do not have the knowledge you have.

So can I ask you to relate in terms of the Bible be we have today so that those who do not know what you know will understand.

 

[Shamah]

Ok

Bear in mind that many people are not like you and do not have the knowledge you have.

So can I ask you to relate in terms of the Bible be we have today so that those who do not know what you know will understand.

Right on, we are all seeking and learning, my intent is simply truth, I say as long as we seek the Messiah in sincerity we are all on the right path!

 

[dcontroversal]

My Bible reads a little differently than yours Decon.

In my Bible It was the serpent, Not God, that convinced Eve to reject God's instructions.

Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (you are saved)
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

In my Bible both Cain and Abel offered "Works" to God.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Cain, like Eve, rejected the instructions of God. Is that what your Bible teaches?

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Abel offered works same as Cain. But Abel's "Works" were acceptable to Jesus. Isn't that what your Bible teaches?

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, (Like Abel and Abraham)which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to (the religions of) this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, (Like Abram ) that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I know the serpent teaches that if I follow God's instructions, I won't be accepted by God. I know "MANY" are convinced of this very thing as was Eve. But I am going to stick with the Word which became Flesh on this one.

Obviously you cannot read....I never said anything about God convincing Eve to do anything...and the sin lies in Adam not Eve...and the rest of your points are equally moot....Abel offered blood in faith...Cain offered the works of his hands....only workers for and Cainologists such as yourself have a difficult time

Paul addressed this in the latter part of Romans 5 thru 6

Grace is not a license to sin.



Yahdah?

The Lawyer/Pharisee....the same law breaker that pushes adherance to the law to help maintain salvation!

 

[Shamah]

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."



John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."



1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."



1 Yahanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

 

[VCO]

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."



John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."



1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."



1 Yahanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

No matter what you want to call it, John 14:15, makes it PLAIN that only those who have GOD's LOVE poured into our HEARTS, Rom 5:5 are Born Again, and thus they are capable to LOVE like that. Therefore KEEPING HIS Commands, IS PART OF OUR LOVE, and never was part of SALVATION.

 

[Shamah]

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

1 Yahanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

No matter what you want to call it, John 14:15, makes it PLAIN that only those who have GOD's LOVE poured into our HEARTS, Rom 5:5 are Born Again, and thus they are capable to LOVE like that. Therefore KEEPING HIS Commands, IS PART OF OUR LOVE, and never was part of SALVATION.

Ummm, thats what I was saying, ummm, that is what I quoted....

Those that follow the Lamb love His Instructions;

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Mat 7:15-20, “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them.”

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

 

[gb9]

Ummm, thats what I was saying, ummm, that is what I quoted....

Those that follow the Lamb love His Instructions;

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Mat 7:15-20, “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them.”

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

and, as has ben pointed out to you many times, the Commands John was referring to are " believe in the name of the Son, and love one another ", not keep the Torah/ Sabbath.

it's good to see you back, sad you are still up to the same old Hebrew roots deception .

 

[Shamah]

and, as has ben pointed out to you many times, the Commands John was referring to are " believe in the name of the Son, and love one another ", not keep the Torah/ Sabbath.

it's good to see you back, sad you are still up to the same old Hebrew roots deception .

LOL. You love stero typing huh? Well my Messiah said this:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

You isolate to ignore so many of His words:

John 6:27-29, “Do not labor for the food that is perishing, but for the food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Aḏam shall give you, for the Father, YHWH, has set His seal on Him.” So they said to Him, “What should we do to work the works of YHWH?” יהושע answered and said to them, “This is the work of YHWH, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

YOu can stop there or you can consider all that Yahshua said and can look deeper to see how this is done...

Here:

John 6:28-29,28 So they said to Him, “What should we do to work the works of the Mighty One?” יהושע answered and said to them, “This is the work of the Mighty One, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Can you "you believe in Him whom He sent.” and not do what He says?

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Luke 6:46, “But why do you call Me ‘Master, Master,’ and do not do what I say?”

 

[gb9]

LOL. You love stero typing huh? Well my Messiah said this:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

You isolate to ignore so many of His words:

John 6:27-29, “Do not labor for the food that is perishing, but for the food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Aḏam shall give you, for the Father, YHWH, has set His seal on Him.” So they said to Him, “What should we do to work the works of YHWH?” יהושע answered and said to them, “This is the work of YHWH, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

YOu can stop there or you can consider all that Yahshua said and can look deeper to see how this is done...

Here:

John 6:28-29,28 So they said to Him, “What should we do to work the works of the Mighty One?” יהושע answered and said to them, “This is the work of the Mighty One, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Can you "you believe in Him whom He sent.” and not do what He says?

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Luke 6:46, “But why do you call Me ‘Master, Master,’ and do not do what I say?”

thanks for this, it gives a chance to make this point-

there is one thing all you Hebrew roots/sda, assembly of called out believers ignore- the mount of transfiguration experience, in which God the Father, in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ) said of the Son " this is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased . hear HIM ".

this elevates and seperates the words in red above all other Scripture. the Father did NOT say " hear Me through Him '.

so, you see, when Jesus said " if you love me, keep My Commands, " , he was NOT referring to the Torah. He was referring to what He said , out of His mouth.

the truth of Trinity destroys the lies of oneness, along with all other law keeping for salvation nonsense .

 

[Shamah]

thanks for this, it gives a chance to make this point-

there is one thing all you Hebrew roots/sda, assembly of called out believers ignore- the mount of transfiguration experience, in which God the Father, in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ) said of the Son " this is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased . hear HIM ".

this elevates and seperates the words in red above all other Scripture. the Father did NOT say " hear Me through Him '.

so, you see, when Jesus said " if you love me, keep My Commands, " , he was NOT referring to the Torah. He was referring to what He said , out of His mouth.

the truth of Trinity destroys the lies of oneness, along with all other law keeping for salvation nonsense .

Yeah you name this group and that group, I am none of those. Maybe I should call you catholic? No I wouldnt because you are an indivigual...

the Father did NOT say " hear Me through Him.

and actuall Yah did say EXACTLY THAT:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

...

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

oh and did heaven and earth pass?

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"

 

[dcontroversal]

and, as has ben pointed out to you many times, the Commands John was referring to are " believe in the name of the Son, and love one another ", not keep the Torah/ Sabbath.

it's good to see you back, sad you are still up to the same old Hebrew roots deception .

Amen....the law keeper that does not keep the law.....

 

[stonesoffire]

Paul addressed this in the latter part of Romans 5 thru 6

Grace is not a license to sin.



Yahdah?

actually Yada is a Hebrew word and it means "to know". I laughed each time I heard someone say yada yada yada.

But, I know shamah made a mistake, or at least I think he did.

 

[VCO]

Ummm, thats what I was saying, ummm, that is what I quoted....

Those that follow the Lamb love His Instructions;

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Mat 7:15-20, “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them.”

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

1 John 5:2-3 (HCSB)
2 This is how we know that we love God’s children when we love God and obey His commands.
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

And here is wisdom from the Apocrypha, even though I think it should not be part of the Bible.

Sirach 2:15 (NJB)
15 Those who fear the Lord do not disdain his words, and those who love him keep his ways.

John 14:24 (HCSB)
24 The one who doesn’t love Me will not keep My words. The word that you hear is not Mine but is from the Father who sent Me.

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death. {.Not Born Again.}

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 7:25 - Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Jesus does not need us to "add our works" to His finished work of redemption in order to "help Him save us" (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

*Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers (Romans 3:22-28). *No supplements needed.

Sadly, many do not believe this, which is why we are havingthis debate.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And from beginning men have been pushing works to get right with God, and he rejecred them...

Adam and Eve sewing fig leaves together <---REJECTED

Cain offering the works of his hands <-----rejected

Workers for = Cainologists......they too will be rejected and found under the "MANY" GROUPING.....PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER

Yes, religion is from satan, but it sounds so good, which is why it is so powerful, And why so many are deceved by its leven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow!!

Did God save us or does He need our help?

Mankind doesn't "Help" God save them. Mankind either accepts His Salvation or they reject it, choosing instead to create their own way and their own Path as did Eve and the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time.

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Was Jesus not able to gather these EG? Did He need their help? Or did they reject Him and His Instruction?

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Was God not able to save these EG, did He need their help? Did God fail them, or did they reject Him and the Path he ordained beforehand that they should "walk in them"?

Matt. 7:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Was God not able to save these EG, did He need their help? Or did they show by their "Works" that they didn't believe in Him?

Matt. 13:
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do (Man's Work) iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Was God not able to save these EG, did He need their help? Or did they also reject God's Instruction?

The most important study a person will be involved in is the deception of the serpent that Jesus gave us the example of in the very beginning of HIS WORD.

This deceiver used parts of God's Word to deceive Eve. And what was the deception?

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

First it convinced Eve she was saved, already immortal in whatever state she was in.

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject God's instruction and lean on your own understanding) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Second, it convinced Eve that God's instructions were "against her". That His instructions imprisoned her, and that to know the truth she must be "FREED" from God's Instructions.

Was Eve's Faith in God or herself? By her "works" we know her Faith was in herself.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She not only rejected God's instruction, but she promoted this same rejection to others as it is to this day. Paul was worried about this very thing.

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

No EG, God doesn't need our help, We need His?

And here we have religion at its finest, easily deceptive, sounds great, but in the end, a person trying to help God through his own power, and rejecting the power of God to help him.

On the one hand, states he can not do it, thus God has to do it, while at same time, saying if we do not do it, we are lost.