OSAS= House Built on Sand

[UnderGrace]

You said "I" believed. If your believing was not a work of the damnable works gospel at that time, why is it now?

Because that BELIEF in your faulty view does not secure salvation as "fait accompli" at that point in time.

We all have to believe/be perusaded/ of the exact same thing at a specific point in time, once, not ongoing, that is why no can boast.

You have made Belief the ongoing grounds for salvation, not the one time instrument as it truly is, to receive the gift of salvation by the grace of God.

If ongoing belief is the grounds for salvation then we can boast.

You are actually more inline with Calvin than you realize, at least his system works if you accept the whole thing, yours does not.

 

[dcontroversal]

I find it very interesting that false religions and cults who teach salvation by works (including Roman Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc..) all strongly support NOSAS and turn it into "type 2 works salvation." That has always been a red flag for me!

Amen brother....Incould care less what they say...at the end of the day they do not have the faith nor the hope that the bible sets forth and they absolutely devalue Christ, his work, his power, verb tense, context, verbiage, his promises etc..and turn Jesus into a weak, inept liar that must be assissted in order to remain saved.....in the process of their "Cainology" they toss Jesus off of his throne and lift themselves up....they fully espouse and push the same dogma that the "many" push that Jesus speaks to.....end of story regardless of how loud they bark!!

 

[dcontroversal]

JPT is only interested in promoting his works salvation/lose salvation propaganda and is not interested in listening or learning.

Amen.....one of two on ignore, but about to add one or two more because they cannot but twist, deceive, embellish, reject the truth to push Cainology....!

Ralph, consider the possibility that those who are engaging in this madness with you - saying that we don't have to believe until the end, yet saying that they still believe - at some point neglected the faith they had at a younger age, and then realizing their error, returned to the faith later in life. Thus there may be some guilt issues going on that is causing this resistance and animosity to this very basic and clearly witnessed reality that we have to persevere in the faith until the end.

More like take your own advice and consider the possibility that both of you are wrong and the simple truth that a Perfect tense Greek verb proves you're wrong....not to mention context, words, the promises and power of Christ.....yeah that is it.....Cainology saves no one nor will a dogma that places salvation upon a man's back and what HE MUST DO!

 

[Jewel5712]

The key to understand is the sheep must repent, just exactly like he did when first saved as an unbeliever.


That's the point.


Please examine carefully what Jesus says here, and what it takes for a wayward brother to return to Him.

• If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?

• And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

Please notice the steps to bringing him back to being "found".


“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.

• If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
• But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more
• And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.
• But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. 15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17





JPT

Whhaatttt?? How many different ideas are you trying to get across here to make a single point? First talking bout sheep and restoring o the fold then 2 people in disagreement and Biblical church policies etc?? CONFUSION my friend

 

[Jewel5712]

@justpassinthrough ..yes..if theres a problem n you have asked the other persons forgiveness etc n they chose NOT to forgive its on them! Because WE are to forgive others like the shephard forgives us so we can be reconciled bacj to the fold..Christ is our example...is THAT the point youre trying to make? Hard to tell

 

[Jewel5712]

@Ralph- @justpassinthrough

Food for thought ..if your point about this OSAS hasnt gotten through in 9 plus pages of back n forth replies..maybe you need to examine what your TRUE motives are for goung on..n onnn..n oooonnnnnnn in CIRCLES..lol

2Timothy 23-24

"

"23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful."

Amen?

I quoted a scripture because i know how you all like doing that to make a Biblical point

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We all have to believe/be perusaded/ of the exact same thing at a specific point in time, once, not ongoing, that is why no can boast.

This is so absurd. Ongoing faith means boasting, but believing once doesn't.

 

[UnderGrace]

This is so absurd. Ongoing faith means boasting, but believing once doesn't.

Well, hard to see truth when it is all about you and your effort. As usual self gets in the way.

Believing once is the same for all, one belief in the work of one person (Christ Jesus) one enduring result.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well, hard to see truth when it is all about you and your effort. As usual self gets in the way.

Believing once is the same for all, one belief in the work of one person (Christ Jesus) one enduring result.

One belief with one enduring result is not self-effort that you can boast in, but if you keep believing that's self-effort that you can boast in? I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. Please explain why the first part of this verse is "self-effort" and the second part isn't.

Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], live in him [by faith], Colossians 2:6​

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[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well, hard to see truth when it is all about you and your effort. As usual self gets in the way.

Believing once is the same for all, one belief in the work of one person (Christ Jesus) one enduring result.

I mean seriously, what you're really saying is that a person has to believe once, and then must stop believing, otherwise they are engaging in self-effort. You can't see how ridiculous that is?

.

 

[PennEd]

This is so absurd. Ongoing faith means boasting, but believing once doesn't.

If it is NOT a one time event, how many times does a Child of God have to Born to new life?

THIS really is what this debate that has raged for countless threads of many yrs is all about. You don't really believe in being born again, or believe that birth doesn't actually happen til you die.

Because BIRTH is a ONE time event!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I think it's important to distinguish between the words used in Col2:6 and Gal2:20 :

"so live[G4043 - peripateite]/walk/conduct one's life [also in/by faith]"

[and]

"that which I now live [G2198 - zo] in the flesh, IN FAITH I live [G2198 - zo], THAT OF the Son of God..." (HIS ).

 

[UnderGrace]

One belief with one enduring result is not self-effort that you can boast in, but if you keep believing that's self-effort that you can boast in? I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. Please explain why the first part of this verse is "self-effort" and the second part isn't.

Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], live in him [by faith], Colossians 2:6​

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No one is saying we do not continue to believe in the Christian life, however we are saved completely when Jesus has truly been the object of our faith, belief/faith is only the instrument, justification is wholly from God, "fait accompli" finished.

The problem in your reasoning comes from ...
1) it fails to acknowledge the enduring result of the faith that is wholly from God

2) the loss of salvation by necessity implies something we failed to do, if a person fails and then the other does not the one who does not fail is able to boast, capisci?

 

[UnderGrace]

I mean seriously, what you're really saying is that a person has to believe once, and then must stop believing, otherwise they are engaging in self-effort. You can't see how ridiculous that is?

.

I can I think we have a failure to communicate ...I never said the person stops believing after they are saved, belief/faith does continue but not for salvation rather to grow in Christ and knowledge of Him.

 

[dcontroversal]

If it is NOT a one time event, how many times does a Child of God have to Born to new life?

THIS really is what this debate that has raged for countless threads of many yrs is all about. You don't really believe in being born again, or believe that birth doesn't actually happen til you die.

Because BIRTH is a ONE time event!

I must add....it is pure idiocy to reject the following -->once a son by birth always a son by birth......NOTHING can change the fact that my son was born my son by birth.....from the second he was conceived he was and is my son forever by birth.....such a simple concept rejected and denied ignorantly by many! Add on top of that the following...born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED by the LIVING ETERNAL WORD OF GOD DIA FAITH....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If it is NOT a one time event, how many times does a Child of God have to Born to new life?

THIS really is what this debate that has raged for countless threads of many yrs is all about. You don't really believe in being born again, or believe that birth doesn't actually happen til you die.

Because BIRTH is a ONE time event!

You have faith in a "birth". I don't. I have faith in GOD.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No one is saying we do not continue to believe in the Christian life, however we are saved completely when Jesus has truly been the object of our faith, belief/faith is only the instrument, justification is wholly from God, "fait accompli" finished.

The problem in your reasoning comes from ...
1) it fails to acknowledge the enduring result of the faith that is wholly from God

2) the loss of salvation by necessity implies something we failed to do, if a person fails and then the other does not the one who does not fail is able to boast, capisci?

No, I do acknowledge the enduring result of Christ's death - our justification.

And again, you reasoning is absurd. Your one-time faith allows you to boast over those who never had it.

There is no boasting in faith. It recognizes that GOD alone gets all of the glory.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I can I think we have a failure to communicate ...I never said the person stops believing after they are saved, belief/faith does continue but not for salvation rather to grow in Christ and knowledge of Him.

And if faith doesn't continue or stops completely at some point? What then?

 

[PennEd]

You have faith in a "birth". I don't. I have faith in GOD.

Think how silly your statement is. Do I have "faith" that I was born naturally, the product of my Earthly parents becoming one flesh? Utterly absurd! The fact of my existence speaks of my "faith' that I was born.

I don't need faith in my new birth. My spiritual Father begat me by the faith, HE GAVE ME, in His Son's death and subsequent resurrection. I am reborn His Child because of Who His Son is, and what His Son has done for me, and to me.

So let's just cut to the chase here. ARE YOU, RIGHT NOW, A BORN AGAIN CHILD OF GOD? And if so, tell me how you become unborn.

 

[Ralph-]

@Ralph- making a DESCISSION to be saved is an adjective NOT a "work" ..action..not work..we are persued and prompted by God /Holy Spirit to become saved..

That's what I've been saying. But I'm being told my continued believing is me trying to save myself by what I do as if believing is a work of the works gospel.