Rapture
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When the Lord returns, on the last day, of what is called time I believe or just befor the last thousand years, those who sleep in the dust will be taken up by His angels to meet Him on the clounds followed by those who are yet quick in the flesh, that is alive and about.
There is not word, rapture, but that i the only event described in the Word coming close to raptured up.
There is not word, rapture, but that i the only event described in the Word coming close to raptured up.
Hey! JP... PTL!
Now regarding the evil one's revealing of himself to the world, we see in 2 Thes 2:3-8 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."
Matt 16:16-19 "And Simon Peter answered and said, thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, blessed art thou Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."That this includes all of the body of Christ and not just Peter is seen in Matt 18:18,19 " Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye bind upon the earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever ye loose upon the earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."
The Church has authority over all the power of the enemy and the Holy Spirit ministers judgment to the evil spirits that are in the world. So that between the Church and the Holy Spirit; the evil one will be hindered from revealing himself to the world until its time for the abomination of desolation, which will occur during the middle of the great tribulation. Then the Church will be caught up into the air, to be with the Lord Jesus; and then the evil one will reveal himself as God to the world.
Maranatha!
Now regarding the evil one's revealing of himself to the world, we see in 2 Thes 2:3-8 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."
Matt 16:16-19 "And Simon Peter answered and said, thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, blessed art thou Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."That this includes all of the body of Christ and not just Peter is seen in Matt 18:18,19 " Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye bind upon the earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever ye loose upon the earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."
The Church has authority over all the power of the enemy and the Holy Spirit ministers judgment to the evil spirits that are in the world. So that between the Church and the Holy Spirit; the evil one will be hindered from revealing himself to the world until its time for the abomination of desolation, which will occur during the middle of the great tribulation. Then the Church will be caught up into the air, to be with the Lord Jesus; and then the evil one will reveal himself as God to the world.
Maranatha!
The word used for what we call the rapture is "harpazo"...caught up or caught away.
But this word is used a number of times to mean an entry into God's kingdom while we are still living here now.
The kingdom of God is being pressed into and the diligent are seizing it by "harpazo."
How did Philip go from one city to the other in Acts? By harpazo.
So then rapture is any kind of translation whether spiritual or bodily.
But this word is used a number of times to mean an entry into God's kingdom while we are still living here now.
The kingdom of God is being pressed into and the diligent are seizing it by "harpazo."
How did Philip go from one city to the other in Acts? By harpazo.
So then rapture is any kind of translation whether spiritual or bodily.
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Not in the middle of the tribulation.
1 Thes 4 says ...the dead in christ rise first.
The innumerable number in heaven,before the throne,died during the great tribulation.
They are the same ones that the antichrist is given power over to kill.
Mid trib leaves out several components.
It can not be that the 5 wise virgins come in during the trib.
Rapture is pretrib. Solid ,without a doubt.
1 Thes 4 says ...the dead in christ rise first.
The innumerable number in heaven,before the throne,died during the great tribulation.
They are the same ones that the antichrist is given power over to kill.
Mid trib leaves out several components.
It can not be that the 5 wise virgins come in during the trib.
Rapture is pretrib. Solid ,without a doubt.
How sure are you with this statement of yours? "Rapture is pretrib. Solid ,without a doubt." I have a couple of questions for you? And btw, welcome to Christian Chat. This is what 1 John 2:18 states, "Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour."
Why does the Apostle John tell or warn us that antichrist is coming IF nobody is going to be around because we are "raptured" before the great tribulation? My second question is from 2 Thessalonians 1:6,7, "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, vs7, and to give "REST OR RELIEF" to you who are afflicted and to us as well WHEN (will we get rest?) the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,"
If you read the rest of the chapter and chapter 2 this is all post tribulation. In fact Matthew 24:15 says the same thing that the antichrist is on the scene and so are we and Jesus further tells us what we need to do at the verses following Matthew 24:15.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Why does the Apostle John tell or warn us that antichrist is coming IF nobody is going to be around because we are "raptured" before the great tribulation? My second question is from 2 Thessalonians 1:6,7, "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, vs7, and to give "REST OR RELIEF" to you who are afflicted and to us as well WHEN (will we get rest?) the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,"
If you read the rest of the chapter and chapter 2 this is all post tribulation. In fact Matthew 24:15 says the same thing that the antichrist is on the scene and so are we and Jesus further tells us what we need to do at the verses following Matthew 24:15.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Who says nobody is going to be around? The Church is a very small segment of the world's population, and there will be millions or billions around when the Antichrist takes control. What John is conveying to us is that the spirit of antichrist is already at work, and we see this all around us.
Every false religion and every false *Christian" cult denies the deity of Christ -- that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. When the Antichrist appears he will tell the world that he is the real Christ (as well as God), and that the Lord Jesus Christ was a false Messiah.
That passage is about the Second Coming of Christ WITH His saints and angels. At the Rapture Christ comes FOR His saints, and also resurrects those who have gone to be with Him.
Every false religion and every false *Christian" cult denies the deity of Christ -- that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. When the Antichrist appears he will tell the world that he is the real Christ (as well as God), and that the Lord Jesus Christ was a false Messiah.
That passage is about the Second Coming of Christ WITH His saints and angels. At the Rapture Christ comes FOR His saints, and also resurrects those who have gone to be with Him.
When I say nobody will be around I'm referring to the church being raptured. Secondly, let's do this by the numbers and start with Matthew 24 where Jesus is ask the question at vs3, "Tell us, when will these things be, AND WHAT WILL BE THE SIGN OF YOUR COMING, AND THE END OF THE AGE."
I'm not going to quote every verse in Matthew 24 but just highlight some of them. Verses 4-14 is of course already clear signs happening today. Jesus then says at vs15, "Therefore or "for that reason" or "consequently" from what He just said in the previous verses, "when you see the Abomination of Desolation (i.e The antichrist, one person) which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (let the reader understand).
Jesus then goes on to outline (starting at vs16-28) what we will do and what will happen at the hands of the antichrist, i.e tribulation vs21. Then at vs29-31 "But immediately AFTER the tribulation the Son of Man will appear. There is no mention of a rapture or secret rapture BEFORE the GREAT TRIBULATION."
You also have at Hebrews 9:28, "so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many SHALL APPEAR A SECOND TIME FOR SALVATION OR DELIVERANCE without reference to sin, to those who eargerly await Him." Then you have the Apostle John backing up the writer of Hebrews at Revelation 20 where the time frame is the tribulation and at vs5, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. The rest of Revelation 20 deals with the thousand year reign and what will happen. There is no mention according to the time frame of a "rapture" before this period. There is only one second coming.
And here is something else to think about and never made any sense to me. According to the pre-trib rapture (and years and years ago I believed in this pre-trib rapture business.). Anyway after were raptured we will be having the Lambs supper at Revelation 19:6-9. It does not make sense that we will all be rejoicing and eating while all hell is breaking loose here on earth.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I'm not going to quote every verse in Matthew 24 but just highlight some of them. Verses 4-14 is of course already clear signs happening today. Jesus then says at vs15, "Therefore or "for that reason" or "consequently" from what He just said in the previous verses, "when you see the Abomination of Desolation (i.e The antichrist, one person) which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (let the reader understand).
Jesus then goes on to outline (starting at vs16-28) what we will do and what will happen at the hands of the antichrist, i.e tribulation vs21. Then at vs29-31 "But immediately AFTER the tribulation the Son of Man will appear. There is no mention of a rapture or secret rapture BEFORE the GREAT TRIBULATION."
You also have at Hebrews 9:28, "so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many SHALL APPEAR A SECOND TIME FOR SALVATION OR DELIVERANCE without reference to sin, to those who eargerly await Him." Then you have the Apostle John backing up the writer of Hebrews at Revelation 20 where the time frame is the tribulation and at vs5, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. The rest of Revelation 20 deals with the thousand year reign and what will happen. There is no mention according to the time frame of a "rapture" before this period. There is only one second coming.
And here is something else to think about and never made any sense to me. According to the pre-trib rapture (and years and years ago I believed in this pre-trib rapture business.). Anyway after were raptured we will be having the Lambs supper at Revelation 19:6-9. It does not make sense that we will all be rejoicing and eating while all hell is breaking loose here on earth.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Matthew 24 has nothing to say about the Rapture. It is all about the temple, Jerusalem, Judea, the Jews, as well as how things would develop on earth until the Second Coming of Christ. The "elect" in this chapter is a reference to the believing Jewish remnant on earth.
It makes perfect sense to God. God's children are meant to rejoice with Him even while He pours out His judgments on the wicked, the unbelieving, and the ungodly. The whole purpose of the Gospel is to bring all men to repentance so that they do not have to face the wrath of God.
It makes perfect sense to God. God's children are meant to rejoice with Him even while He pours out His judgments on the wicked, the unbelieving, and the ungodly. The whole purpose of the Gospel is to bring all men to repentance so that they do not have to face the wrath of God.
Christ is only coming back ONE MORE TIME.
To suggest He comes back, then leaves a bunch of people here to get a "DO OVER" is to suggest that Gods Salvation Plan is flawed.
When Christ returns.......the Eastern Sky splits, the LAST Trump sounds.........THAT'S IT!
The dead oi Christ will rise first, and then His Church will be caught up to be with Him, AND THE JUDGEMENT will begin.
That's IT!
People are NOT gonna get a "DO OVER."
Folks can speculate/argue all they want, but.........when that Eastern Sky splits, there's gonna be a whole lotta folks weeping and gnashing their teeth..........screaming........ "Where's our do over?"
To suggest He comes back, then leaves a bunch of people here to get a "DO OVER" is to suggest that Gods Salvation Plan is flawed.
When Christ returns.......the Eastern Sky splits, the LAST Trump sounds.........THAT'S IT!
The dead oi Christ will rise first, and then His Church will be caught up to be with Him, AND THE JUDGEMENT will begin.
That's IT!
People are NOT gonna get a "DO OVER."
Folks can speculate/argue all they want, but.........when that Eastern Sky splits, there's gonna be a whole lotta folks weeping and gnashing their teeth..........screaming........ "Where's our do over?"
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Your not paying attention nehemiah. And btw, your right, Matthew 24 does not have anything to do with the so-called Rapture. Look again at the question the disciples ask Jesus Christ at Matthew 24:3,
Tell us, when will these things be, (these words refer bact to vs2) then the disciples ask, "and what will be th3e sing of Your coming, AND THE END OF THE AGE or "THE COMPLETION OF THE WORLD."
In other words the first part they asked was when all these things would be. That is how soon the city and temple would be destroyed. The second part asked for a sign that would preceed His coming and "the end of the world." The Greek word "aion, age, period or era. The disciples jumped to the conclusion that the destruction of the temple would surely bring them to the time of Jesus Christ's return in glory.
If you read Matthew 23:37-39 these verses imply time would elapse between the destruction of Jerusalem and Christ's second coming in glory, not a rapture as you understand it. What your doing is what I use to do and that is bring up talking points like 1 Thessalonians 5:9, you know, "God has not destined us to suffer wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse means that God has not appointed BELIVERS to wrath as opposed to non belivers who will face God's wrath/judgment because they are unbelivers. Please read vs10 because vs10 clearly says, "who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him." Now, where am I wrong about all of this nehemiah?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Tell us, when will these things be, (these words refer bact to vs2) then the disciples ask, "and what will be th3e sing of Your coming, AND THE END OF THE AGE or "THE COMPLETION OF THE WORLD."
In other words the first part they asked was when all these things would be. That is how soon the city and temple would be destroyed. The second part asked for a sign that would preceed His coming and "the end of the world." The Greek word "aion, age, period or era. The disciples jumped to the conclusion that the destruction of the temple would surely bring them to the time of Jesus Christ's return in glory.
If you read Matthew 23:37-39 these verses imply time would elapse between the destruction of Jerusalem and Christ's second coming in glory, not a rapture as you understand it. What your doing is what I use to do and that is bring up talking points like 1 Thessalonians 5:9, you know, "God has not destined us to suffer wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse means that God has not appointed BELIVERS to wrath as opposed to non belivers who will face God's wrath/judgment because they are unbelivers. Please read vs10 because vs10 clearly says, "who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him." Now, where am I wrong about all of this nehemiah?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Your not paying attention nehemiah. And btw, your right, Matthew 24 does not have anything to do with the so-called Rapture. Look again at the question the disciples ask Jesus Christ at Matthew 24:3,
Tell us, when will these things be, (these words refer bact to vs2) then the disciples ask, "and what will be th3e sing of Your coming, AND THE END OF THE AGE or "THE COMPLETION OF THE WORLD."
In other words the first part they asked was when all these things would be. That is how soon the city and temple would be destroyed. The second part asked for a sign that would preceed His coming and "the end of the world." The Greek word "aion, age, period or era. The disciples jumped to the conclusion that the destruction of the temple would surely bring them to the time of Jesus Christ's return in glory.
If you read Matthew 23:37-39 these verses imply time would elapse between the destruction of Jerusalem and Christ's second coming in glory, not a rapture as you understand it. What your doing is what I use to do and that is bring up talking points like 1 Thessalonians 5:9, you know, "God has not destined us to suffer wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse means that God has not appointed BELIVERS to wrath as opposed to non belivers who will face God's wrath/judgment because they are unbelivers. Please read vs10 because vs10 clearly says, "who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him." Now, where am I wrong about all of this nehemiah?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Tell us, when will these things be, (these words refer bact to vs2) then the disciples ask, "and what will be th3e sing of Your coming, AND THE END OF THE AGE or "THE COMPLETION OF THE WORLD."
In other words the first part they asked was when all these things would be. That is how soon the city and temple would be destroyed. The second part asked for a sign that would preceed His coming and "the end of the world." The Greek word "aion, age, period or era. The disciples jumped to the conclusion that the destruction of the temple would surely bring them to the time of Jesus Christ's return in glory.
If you read Matthew 23:37-39 these verses imply time would elapse between the destruction of Jerusalem and Christ's second coming in glory, not a rapture as you understand it. What your doing is what I use to do and that is bring up talking points like 1 Thessalonians 5:9, you know, "God has not destined us to suffer wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse means that God has not appointed BELIVERS to wrath as opposed to non belivers who will face God's wrath/judgment because they are unbelivers. Please read vs10 because vs10 clearly says, "who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him." Now, where am I wrong about all of this nehemiah?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Mass rapture is a lie, two or three people surviving a car crush is their rapture, it happens every day.
No one is leaving this earth but the kingdom of God will rule over this earth forever and ever. The earth itself will change but believers will still be here.