BIBLE VERSES EXPLAINING SOME TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
- Thread starter jameen
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If I violated the rule by making this thread, then the moderator should not approve this and warn me about it.
My intention is not to promote my beliefs but just to get your opinions. that's all.
Similar to what I posted about purgatory, my intention is to see if what I learned is really right but in the end I found out that it is not.
I don't even ask anyone to convert to Catholic Church and repent being a member of any Bible based groups but to investigate whether the Orthodox, Coptic or Catholic Church is the true Church because I believe that the true Christian Church started from First Century AD and it continues up to this day.
My intention is not to promote my beliefs but just to get your opinions. that's all.
Similar to what I posted about purgatory, my intention is to see if what I learned is really right but in the end I found out that it is not.
I don't even ask anyone to convert to Catholic Church and repent being a member of any Bible based groups but to investigate whether the Orthodox, Coptic or Catholic Church is the true Church because I believe that the true Christian Church started from First Century AD and it continues up to this day.
-
1
- Show all
I have provides some of the biblical grounds for the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory on the thread devoted to that topic.
Report
PRAYING TO THE SAINTS
Protestants accept the Apostles' Creed as an important expression of the apostolic faith. This Creed contains this affirmation: "I believe in the Communion of Saints," but evangelicals are generally ignorant of what this doctrine entails. So Catholics want Baptists to receive this teaching from God's Word:
(1) "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses... let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1)."
Protestants miss the point here by reading 12:1 as if it merely said, "Seeing that we have been preceded by so great a cloud of witnesses..." This misreading can be dismissed on 2 grounds:
(a) In Hebrews "martyres" always means "eyewitnesses." So the deceased saints in chap. 11 are perceived as living spectators who witness our struggles as we compete in the spiritual race of our earthly lives.
(b) The image in 12:1 is that of a great heavenly arena of the deceased saints in the clouds who are spectators watching us run our spiritual race below, cheering us on, and bringing us aid. They don't just precede us; they "surround" us.
(c) The context of chap. 12 makes it clear that we now have access to these spectator saints:
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem...to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven (12:22-23)."
By running our race in open view of the living dead saints, we have actually "come" to "the city of the living God" Or as Jesus puts it, "the kingdom of God has come upon you" and is "in your midst (Luke 11:22; 17:21)."
(2) As part of the Communion of Saints, the saints in heaven remain a vital part of the body of Christ and they pray for us and our access to them makes it profitable to ask them to pray for us:
The 24 elders fell before the Lamb, each holding...golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints (Revelation 5:8; see also 8:3-4)."
But it is not the saints who answer our prayers (including Mary), but rather God who hears intercessory prayer, both theirs and ours. For Catholics praying to saints in no way undermines Christ's status as our unique mediator between God and humanity.
From my research and observation, Catholics experience many miraculous healings in response to their prayers to the saints. By contrast, miracles seen comparatively rare in response to the prayers of many evangelicals.
Protestants accept the Apostles' Creed as an important expression of the apostolic faith. This Creed contains this affirmation: "I believe in the Communion of Saints," but evangelicals are generally ignorant of what this doctrine entails. So Catholics want Baptists to receive this teaching from God's Word:
(1) "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses... let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1)."
Protestants miss the point here by reading 12:1 as if it merely said, "Seeing that we have been preceded by so great a cloud of witnesses..." This misreading can be dismissed on 2 grounds:
(a) In Hebrews "martyres" always means "eyewitnesses." So the deceased saints in chap. 11 are perceived as living spectators who witness our struggles as we compete in the spiritual race of our earthly lives.
(b) The image in 12:1 is that of a great heavenly arena of the deceased saints in the clouds who are spectators watching us run our spiritual race below, cheering us on, and bringing us aid. They don't just precede us; they "surround" us.
(c) The context of chap. 12 makes it clear that we now have access to these spectator saints:
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem...to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven (12:22-23)."
By running our race in open view of the living dead saints, we have actually "come" to "the city of the living God" Or as Jesus puts it, "the kingdom of God has come upon you" and is "in your midst (Luke 11:22; 17:21)."
(2) As part of the Communion of Saints, the saints in heaven remain a vital part of the body of Christ and they pray for us and our access to them makes it profitable to ask them to pray for us:
The 24 elders fell before the Lamb, each holding...golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints (Revelation 5:8; see also 8:3-4)."
But it is not the saints who answer our prayers (including Mary), but rather God who hears intercessory prayer, both theirs and ours. For Catholics praying to saints in no way undermines Christ's status as our unique mediator between God and humanity.
From my research and observation, Catholics experience many miraculous healings in response to their prayers to the saints. By contrast, miracles seen comparatively rare in response to the prayers of many evangelicals.
Report
-
1
-
1
- Show all
The Catholic idea of communication with patron saints is founded on necromancy. Seeking after the dead for the living. This is a oral traditions of their fathers called the worship-able or venerable ones. The oral traditions of men that in the end of the matter make the word of God without effect
Strongs lexicon ...Darash (seek) to resort to, seek, seek with care, enquire, require to resort to, frequent (a place), (tread a place)
to consult, enquire of, seek of God ...of heathen gods, necromancers to seek deity in prayer and worship
It is used both ways in Isaiah 8..One as a blessing seeking after our Father in heaven , the other as a curse or a abomination. Catholics must call those abomination as workers with familiar spirits "patron saints" .There are 3500 and rising picking up speed as the Pope adds more and more.
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8: 19-20
Again as a oral tradition of men seeking after familiar spirits as patron saints makes all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) without effect.
When Josiah found Bible as God's law he was moved to perform the work of the Holy Spirit and put away what Catholics call "patron saints" revealing that kind of seeking after the dead for the living is an abomination.
2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord
Strongs lexicon ...Darash (seek) to resort to, seek, seek with care, enquire, require to resort to, frequent (a place), (tread a place)
to consult, enquire of, seek of God ...of heathen gods, necromancers to seek deity in prayer and worship
It is used both ways in Isaiah 8..One as a blessing seeking after our Father in heaven , the other as a curse or a abomination. Catholics must call those abomination as workers with familiar spirits "patron saints" .There are 3500 and rising picking up speed as the Pope adds more and more.
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8: 19-20
Again as a oral tradition of men seeking after familiar spirits as patron saints makes all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) without effect.
When Josiah found Bible as God's law he was moved to perform the work of the Holy Spirit and put away what Catholics call "patron saints" revealing that kind of seeking after the dead for the living is an abomination.
2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord
-
2
- Show all
Since Christians have direct access to Christ, the Catholic teaching about praying to and praying through saints is false.
And what you failed to mention is that Catholics actually petition Mary as though she God. The Salve Regina is a very clear example, but of course you would never admit that Catholics worship Mary.
Hail, holy Queen
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee to we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Notice:
1. Mary is called "holy Queen" which has no basis in Scripture.
2. Catholics are crying to Mary not to Christ.
3. Mary is called "most gracious advocate" whereas there is only ONE Mediator and Advocate between God and men -- the Man Christ Jesus.
4. Mary is called "Mother of God" whereas the eternal Godhead has no mother or father.
So what we have here is serious blasphemy, not praying to the saints and Mary.
And what you failed to mention is that Catholics actually petition Mary as though she God. The Salve Regina is a very clear example, but of course you would never admit that Catholics worship Mary.
Hail, holy Queen
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee to we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Notice:
1. Mary is called "holy Queen" which has no basis in Scripture.
2. Catholics are crying to Mary not to Christ.
3. Mary is called "most gracious advocate" whereas there is only ONE Mediator and Advocate between God and men -- the Man Christ Jesus.
4. Mary is called "Mother of God" whereas the eternal Godhead has no mother or father.
So what we have here is serious blasphemy, not praying to the saints and Mary.
-
4
- Show all
The true church has always been as you say. But this church has no name (other than the body of Jesus Christ) and is not organized by men. It is simply the love between brethren in the Lord. It is the Lord's presence in our midst. It is they who are led by the Spirit. Men can't organize that any more than you can organize what love is. You may as well try capturing wind in a box.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
“But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love”.
Ephesians 4:15-16
Ephesians 4:15-16
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Thank you for the Catholic apologetics cheat sheet. I have one similar to this one. Although there are Bishops and priests who do not live up to the ideals of Our Lord and His Church, I'm blessed to be a Catholic. The greatest blessing is to receive Him Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Blessed Sacrament.
Blasphemy is to have the faith of Christ as the work of Christ that comes from hearing God not seen in respect to men seen . Whether it the queen or one of the 3500 and rising patron saints authorized as selected the Popes. The Queen of heaven is the same queen of heaven the Pharisees with Sadducees used as a law of their fathers, oral traditions of men. The only difference is the names of these fathers. The Jews used the name Abraham to usurp the Holy Spirit while the Catholic used the name Peter to accomplish the same purpose which Christ called a brood of vipers. or the queen whom the Catholics have titled Mary previously called by the Jews Ishtar (pronounced in the original language as easter). Catholicism with the Coptic Orthodox is a carbon copy of apostate Judaism the Pharisees with Sadducees.
Nehemiah6 wrote,
There is nothing in Catholic teaching that says that one cannot go directly to Christ. Myself, and other Catholics, do this all of the time. Now, you also have to say that the Scripture never condemns intercessory prayer. This is what Catholics are doing when we pray to the saints. We are asking them to pray for us.
Rev. 12, 1 Kgs. 2:19–20
Catholics believe that the Blessed Mother is the New Eve. Since this is the case then we believe that she is our mother in a spiritual sense. Since this is the case then it is only natural for us to cry to our mother.
Catholics do believe that there is only one mediator between God and mankind and that Person is Our Lord Jesus. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church,
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
When we use the word "advocate," in this sense, we are saying that she advocate, our causes and petitions, before her Son. If I asked you to pray for me would you not be advocating before Christ for my petitions?
But you also have to remember that the Word became flesh at the Incarnation. Jesus is both true God and true man. The Blessed Mother gave birth to Our Lord Who is both God and man. Since that is the case then she is rightly called the Mother of God.
What we actually have is a lot of misunderstanding of what Catholics actually believe.
There is nothing in Catholic teaching that says that one cannot go directly to Christ. Myself, and other Catholics, do this all of the time. Now, you also have to say that the Scripture never condemns intercessory prayer. This is what Catholics are doing when we pray to the saints. We are asking them to pray for us.
Rev. 12, 1 Kgs. 2:19–20
Catholics believe that the Blessed Mother is the New Eve. Since this is the case then we believe that she is our mother in a spiritual sense. Since this is the case then it is only natural for us to cry to our mother.
Catholics do believe that there is only one mediator between God and mankind and that Person is Our Lord Jesus. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church,
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
When we use the word "advocate," in this sense, we are saying that she advocate, our causes and petitions, before her Son. If I asked you to pray for me would you not be advocating before Christ for my petitions?
But you also have to remember that the Word became flesh at the Incarnation. Jesus is both true God and true man. The Blessed Mother gave birth to Our Lord Who is both God and man. Since that is the case then she is rightly called the Mother of God.
What we actually have is a lot of misunderstanding of what Catholics actually believe.
-
1
- Show all
Not an expert but I did spend close to ten years on a Catholic Protestant board to discuss the differences . I have heard most likely all of their defense claims. Ultimately they offend that (as it is written ) as that which defends us the sword of the Spirit the incorruptible word of God by which men are born again.
There are traditions as laws or commandments of men like Peter, as the things of men seen. And there are traditions as laws of God, not seen, as the things of God.(prophecy)
No man can serve two teaching masters .One is our teaching Master/Rabbi in heaven we are to call no man (Pope) our teaching on earth.Just as in the same way we are to call no man Father of earth .One is our father in heaven
Two choices. It is either "the things of God"(not seen) , as it is written, or "things of men"(seen) .
One blasphemes the holy name by which we are called like Peter who was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of Man. Jesus, seen . The other the Holy Spirit of Christ blesses us as the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against. Catholicism attributes the key to Peter .
You decide which teaching master you will follow after . Seeing today because the Son of man as that seen is not longer here .Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit(not seen) will not be forgiven .
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the "things that be of God", but "those that be of" men.Mathew16:22-23
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and "blasphemy" shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the "Son of man", it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.Matthew 12:31-32
There are traditions as laws or commandments of men like Peter, as the things of men seen. And there are traditions as laws of God, not seen, as the things of God.(prophecy)
No man can serve two teaching masters .One is our teaching Master/Rabbi in heaven we are to call no man (Pope) our teaching on earth.Just as in the same way we are to call no man Father of earth .One is our father in heaven
Two choices. It is either "the things of God"(not seen) , as it is written, or "things of men"(seen) .
One blasphemes the holy name by which we are called like Peter who was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of Man. Jesus, seen . The other the Holy Spirit of Christ blesses us as the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against. Catholicism attributes the key to Peter .
You decide which teaching master you will follow after . Seeing today because the Son of man as that seen is not longer here .Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit(not seen) will not be forgiven .
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the "things that be of God", but "those that be of" men.Mathew16:22-23
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and "blasphemy" shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the "Son of man", it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.Matthew 12:31-32