OSAS= House Built on Sand
- Thread starter Sabbatismos
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New age? Its an AGE OLD concept but probably like the rolled up the trends..they just polish the concept up 40+ yrs later and re name it to remarket the same product..might have a slightly different spin to is..
" new and improved as society dictates")I would offer in parables the number 1, 10, 100 and 1000 in increments are used a metaphor to represent an unknow as the whole of what ever is in view. 99+1 = 100 all the sheep .
Not 1 will be lost, no one can snatch them from his hand (will)
You place restriction on me which you do not place on yourself.
You always post QUOTE 'once saved always saved 'people use _______ [fill in the blank as to which Scripture you claim the unnamed person used] to show you can't lose your salvation. END QUOTE
You never name the person who states what you claim.
You then go on a diatribe and mash up Scripture willy-nilly, like you did earlier with the Luke 15 and Matt 18 incident and before that you used Galatians in response to my request concerning the arrabōn of 2 Cor 1, 2 Cor 5, and Eph 1.
Poor debate tactics and poor workmanship in rightly dividing God's Word are not the answer to concisely supporting and proving your doctrine.
Actually, I do believe agreeing with God is the first step in the born again experience.
But that is just the beginning ... the "toe in the water" before fully immersing oneself.
And I say this because of what is written in Rom 10:9:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
The word "confess" is the Greek word homologēsēs (from homologeó) and according to HELPS Word-studies it means to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse).
Anyone can just mouth the words "Jesus Christ is Lord" without really agreeing or believing that He is Lord.
Additionally, we are to believe in our hearts that God has raised Him from the dead.
So, while I agree with you that "trusting" is more than "agreeing", Scripture does tell us we must agree that Jesus is Lord when the gospel is presented.
I think of people who mentally assent to the gospel as opposed to actually agreeing with God and the believing in the heart that God raised Him from the dead.
J...,
Suggest you study scriptures again. It is required.
If you need citations let me know.
J...,
Scripture tells me that Christ never sinned therefore he was born with the Holy Spirit and always had it. He did not need baptism to receive it as you and I need it.
J...,
Your conclusion is different than that which you infer in your analysis. You conclude with..."providing we maintain until the end (death)" .....as scripture tells us. That is not OSAS thinking.
Please clarify.
You just demonstrated that you misunderstand. It's not about must confess "this" list of sins, but don't have to confess "that" list of sins. Rather than focusing on confession of every single sin that we commit as we commit them as an additional requirement to remain cleansed (continuous revolving door of sin - uncleansed/lost again; confess - cleansed/saved all over again) and if we forget a sin we are toast, John has in mind a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness. While false teachers/unbelievers say they have no sin "present tense" (vs. 8) or say they have not sinned "past tense" (vs. 10) Christians confess their sins. The term "confess" means to say the same thing about sin as God does, acknowledge His perspective about sin, which is on an ongoing basis.
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. This change of mind is on an ongoing basis. So repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ.
The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Works-salvationists confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.
I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And in that case, it is unlikely that anyone will be saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever "completely stopped sinning" yet there are some deceived individuals who teach "sinless perfection" and believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) and are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).
Those who have repented/those who are born of God no longer practice sin (1 John 3:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Galatians 5:19-21); but instead, practice righteousness (1 John 3:10). The idea of practice is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. This describes the practice of sin in 1 John 3:9 as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life without goal or effort to stop, no repentance, just bring it on.
Believers receive the Holy Spirit through Spirit baptism, not water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:16-17; Ephesians 1:13).
Your absolutely right.
Ephesians 2:8 starts with the word for. That means what follows it, is the reason for what previously stated. Saved is past tense So What is it that we are saved from. Let's take a look.
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:1-10 KJV)
So if continue in the WORD; Jesus Christ, then are we HIS disciples indeed; And We shall know the truth, and the truth shall make us free. For Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant (the sinner) abideth not in the house (Heavenly places) for ever: but the Son abideth ever. AND IF THE SON SHALL MAKE US FREE (FROM THE BONDAGE to SIN THROUGH HIM), FREE WE ARE INDEED!
We who are quickened together with Christ ( by grace we are saved) And have been raised up together, and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We who are NOW his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works (THE TRUE SALVATION), which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherein in time past we walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Through Faith that is not of ourselves it is a gift of GOD through Christ. For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ liveth in us. And the Life we now live we live by the FAITH OF the Son of GOD.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (THE WORD; THE LAW) down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (THE WORD; THE LAW) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The WORD (CHRIST) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; FOR CHRIST (THE WORD IN OUR HEARTS AND MOUTHS) is the end of the Law (that written with ink and on Tables of stone) for righteousness to all that believe
(John 8:31-36; Rom 10:6-8,4 KJV)
Ok..i know youre gonna do this anyway..throw a scripture my way to try and prove your point..
I didnt say that Jesus NEEDED anything..i said He was our EXAMPLE..He idnt do it for HIS purppse but for OURS..
This whole thing i sent ralph was a theologins findins..conclusions for the debate on osas...i believe so theres no misunderstanding that when i was saved at age 7..i am FOREVER saved..my salvation CAN NOT be smatched or taken from me by MY accord or someone elses.
@preston39 ...we recieve the Holy Spirit when we get saved. And yes your right..the spirit that descended from heaven in the form of a dove was God
Matt 3:16
"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him."
Matt 3:16
"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him."
