OSAS= House Built on Sand

[Jewel5712]

That's why we should remain a part of his body through a continued believing. For the passage also says if we deny him (which causes us to not be a part of his body) he no longer has any obligation to continue to remain faithful to us.

"If we deny Him, He also will deny us" - 2 Timothy 2:12

"if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave " - 1 Corinthians 7:15

God doesnt have any "obligation" but He still does..He is still faithful to us even when we arent faithful to Him..question..how many of US abide by beinf faithful ALL the time to God..giving him the FIRST of everything in our lives..time..money..energy..love..etc..how often does "life get in the way" and whoops..there goes prayer and devotions..or an nexpected bill come up and whoops..there goes my tithe and offering etc? IVE been guilty of that but God remains faithful to me..even when i sin.God doesnt like it..but Hes no less faithful..

 

[Ralph-]

no, i'm not at all.

His invisible qualities are clearly seen by what has been made. what mankind has learned about the nature of the fabric of creation in the last 100 years has profound implications substantiating what may have been predicted about the nature of physical reality from the theological principles revealed in the scripture.
a sound understanding of quantum physics is very valuable to understanding the profound mystery of His sovereign will and the existence of individual volition in mortal men.

No, we just need to read the plain words of scripture......without the bias of a predetermined doctrine, like Calvinism and all it's offshoots.

 

[Jewel5712]

It means 'Once Saved Always Saved'.



Has that ever mattered before?

So whats the corrolation with once saved always saved equal house built on sand?

And no..tangets usually mean the original OP has run its course..lol

 

[Ralph-]

God doesnt have any "obligation" but He still does..He is still faithful to us even when we arent faithful to Him..question..how many of US abide by beinf faithful ALL the time to God..giving him the FIRST of everything in our lives..time..money..energy..love..etc..how often does "life get in the way" and whoops..there goes prayer and devotions..or an nexpected bill come up and whoops..there goes my tithe and offering etc? IVE been guilty of that but God remains faithful to me..even when i sin.God doesnt like it..but Hes no less faithful..

You need to distinguish between failing as a Christian (retaining your belief in spite of your failings) with not being a Christian at all anymore and walking away from trust in Christ for forgiveness of sin. Big difference. God is faithful to the weak, but still believing Christian. He denies the (ex) Christian who doesn't even want to believe and trust in him anymore. See the difference?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave " - 1 Corinthians 7:15

I would think this particular verse would be governed by its context, which, when we look at verse 12, it says, "If any brother have an unpersuaded [G571 - apistos] wife..." (that is, she is not a believer). If SHE leaves him... [same for if the unbelieving husband leaves the "sister" (the wife, being IN Christ)]

 

[Jewel5712]

R...,

False religion concept...foundation melts when applying The Bible meaning and G-d's intent.
OSAS came about after the 1960's social and moral revolution, it is very misleading and is not scriptural.

I belive once saved always saved.. If salvation is a GIFT from God that we didnt or couldnt earn..how can a gift be taken away be the same merit?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

OSAS doctrine is based on the belief in man's natural inability. This guy does a great job of explaining where that idea comes from.

 

[Ralph-]

So whats the corrolation with once saved always saved equal house built on sand?

And no..tangets usually mean the original OP has run its course..lol

If 'once saved always saved' makes you live like your sin/believing does not matter to whether or not you're going to be saved when Jesus comes back you have built your house on the sand. The reference to sand comes from Matthew 7...


23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.” - Matthew 7:23-27

If a person thinks 'once saved always saved' is true and that it means they don't have to do anything in their salvation they have built their house on the sand, and when the storms of the Judgment come they will be swept away. The house built on the rock (the person who does the will of God through an active 'living' faith) is the one who will survive.

 

[Ralph-]

I belive once saved always saved.. If salvation is a GIFT from God that we didnt or couldnt earn..how can a gift be taken away be the same merit?

The gift was given through your believing (made possible by the gift of faith). Using your logic, if I received it through my believing then I can lose it by no longer believing. I agree.

 

[Jewel5712]

You need to distinguish between failing as a Christian (retaining your belief in spite of your failings) with not being a Christian at all anymore and walking away from trust in Christ for forgiveness of sin. Big difference. God is faithful to the weak, but still believing Christian. He denies the (ex) Christian who doesn't even want to believe and trust in him anymore. See the difference?

Story of prodigal son..y friend..who do you think the "father" is in the parable...? And what do you think its all about?

Gods death and resurrection is ENOUGH of a sacrifice for me to keep my salvation..again..as in many times in other threads..works doesnt gain our salvation..as works (or lavk of) wont have us lose our salvation. There is no sin thats too great for God not to forgive and tell us we arent part of Him anymore. That totally contradicts the whole plan of salvation...and salvation is a way God created..through Jesus..that we could be restored back to God himself as was intended before the sin n the garden of Eden.

 

[Ralph-]

I would think this particular verse would be governed by its context, which, when we look at verse 12, it says, "If any brother have an unpersuaded [G571 - apistos] wife..." (that is, she is not a believer). If SHE leaves him... [same for if the unbelieving husband leaves the "sister" (the wife, being IN Christ)]

To correlate it to your use of the analogy of husband and wife, the believer who leaves does so because they have become an unbeliever. God has no continuing obligation to the (ex) believer who has chosen to not believe anymore. But he will continue to be faithful as a husband to even the worst, but still believing, believer.

 

[Jewel5712]

You need to distinguish between failing as a Christian (retaining your belief in spite of your failings) with not being a Christian at all anymore and walking away from trust in Christ for forgiveness of sin. Big difference. God is faithful to the weak, but still believing Christian. He denies the (ex) Christian who doesn't even want to believe and trust in him anymore. See the difference?

God patiently waits for the "wandering sheep" to come back to Him..the shephard..just because. WE stray doesnt mean God still isnt our shephard who hasnt paid for us with Jesus blood on the cross..God constantly persues us ..WE have choice...

 

[Ralph-]

Story of prodigal son..y friend..who do you think the "father" is in the parable...? And what do you think its all about?

Gods death and resurrection is ENOUGH of a sacrifice for me to keep my salvation..again..as in many times in other threads..works doesnt gain our salvation..as works (or lavk of) wont have us lose our salvation. There is no sin thats too great for God not to forgive and tell us we arent part of Him anymore. That totally contradicts the whole plan of salvation...and salvation is a way God created..through Jesus..that we could be restored back to God himself as was intended before the sin n the garden of Eden.

The Prodigal son left the Father. That doesn't that line up with 'once saved always saved' doctrine that claims that 1 John 2:10 says true believers never leave, or else they were never true believers to begin with. So the Prodigal son can not be used to show that once you are saved you are always saved.

 

[Ralph-]

God patiently waits for the "wandering sheep" to come back to Him..the shephard..just because. WE stray doesnt mean God still isnt our shephard who hasnt paid for us with Jesus blood on the cross..God constantly persues us ..WE have choice...

Is this wandering you're talking about the wandering of the sinning, yet still believing Christian, or the wandering away of the believer who has chosen to not trust in the blood of Christ anymore for salvation and has become an unbeliever?

 

[Jewel5712]

The gift was given through your believing (made possible by the gift of faith). Using your logic, if I received it through my believing then I can lose it by no longer believing. I agree.

I believed BECAUSE of the inner working of the Holy Spirit..i CHOSE to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour at age 7

 

[Ralph-]

I believed BECAUSE of the inner working of the Holy Spirit..i CHOSE to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour at age 7

And because the condition of your salvation was 'believing', not works, you can lose your salvation by not believing anymore.

I'm simply using the same logic that people use when they say that since salvation was not by works you can not lose it by not doing works.

See, people get into doctrinal trouble when they conclude that since salvation is not earned by works then salvation is by nothing at all, and so you can't lose it. But justification/salvation is not by nothing at all. It is through believing. You have to keep on believing to keep on being saved, just as you would have to keep on working to keep on being saved if salvation was by works.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

To correlate it to your use of the analogy of husband and wife, the believer who leaves does so because they have become an unbeliever. God has no continuing obligation to the (ex) believer who has chosen to not believe anymore. But he will continue to be faithful as a husband to even the worst, but still believing, believer.

Are you just "correlating" with your natural mind, or actually looking to the text? Verses 10-11 speak of what "believers" are to do. Then he addresses what a believer is to do in the event that their spouse (who is not a believer) leaves them. Let them depart. A "brother" or "sister" is not under bondage in such cases...

 

[justpassinthrough]

the context of chapter 14 vv. 25-35.
this is chapter 14 verse 25:

Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them He said:​

​

this is chapter 15 verse 1:

Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus.​

in which verse does it say "He said to His disciples" ?
that ain't in ch. 14 or ch. 15. it's how chapter 16 starts.


but this is all a wild goose chase. the important point is are we carrying lost sheep on our shoulders or is He?

Brother,

Claiming the 99 sheep of His who are just, are actually the pharisee’s and scribes, is the point that I’m refuting.


The point I am making is His sheep who hear His voice and follow Him are just and will receive eternal life.


His sheep who wander away from Him and become lost are sinners that need to repent in order to be reconciled to Him and be just; declared as righteous.



JPT

 

[Jewel5712]

The Prodigal son left the Father. That doesn't that line up with 'once saved always saved' doctrine that claims that 1 John 2:10 says true believers never leave, or else they were never true believers to begin with. So the Prodigal son can not be used to show that once you are saved you are always saved.

Prodigal son..the FATHER is God..the wayward son and the faithful son (mankind)..the wayward sin..we as humans want everything God can give us n then more. (Talents..blessings..etc) but squander it..faithful son..is true to his Father (God)..abiding by the Bible.giving to the poor..being a good steward etc..what happened? the Fatget (God) watched and waited for his son to come home...and WELCOMED him with open arms when he did and threw a party..and repromanded the faithful son for failing to see the signifivance of a watward son coming back to the fellowship with God his Father..

 

[Jewel5712]

Brother,

Claiming the 99 sheep of His who are just, are actually the pharisee’s and scribes, is the point that I’m refuting.


The point I am making is His sheep who hear His voice and follow Him are just and will receive eternal life.


His sheep who wander away from Him and become lost are sinners that need to repent in order to be reconciled to Him and be just; declared as righteous.



JPT

But..he also LEAVES the 99 to persue nd FIND the sheep that is lost...He couldve just said to the sheep.."ok..your choice..good riddence..1 less moith to feed..youre on your own"..he didnt..