OSAS= House Built on Sand

[preston39]

If you are truly asking with an open mind.... spend some time understanding a type of figure of speech litotes

In Revelation 3:5, Jesus is using this figure of speech.

U...,
I asked a sincere question only to get a condesending response.
I know what the Bible says...my question...is for you to answer.

Geeessscccch!!

 

[preston39]

99. God allows His children to suffer shame at His coming rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 John 2:28: "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

100. Because God is greater than our heart.

1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

101. God is able to save and keep us.

2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

P...,

Why is the part about...."maintain until the end"....et al.,.....missing? Was it absent in your previous 6 mo post?
In any event...why is it not included?

 

[Ralph-]

I guess it's my bi-annual time to post the 101 Reasons for Eternal Security! We have a number of new people that might find the MOUNTAIN of Biblical evidence astounding.

1. The believer has everlasting or eternal life.

Yes, BELIEVERS are secure in God's salvation, not unbelievers, not ex-believers. This is not in debate.

You can not stop believing and still be an heir of the promises. That's what Paul told the Galatians when they were departing from justification through faith in Christ and going back to justification through works of the law. You have to continue to believe and trust in Christ to continue to be secure in God's eternally secure salvation.

 

[UnderGrace]

U...,
I asked a sincere question only to get a condesending response.
I know what the Bible says...my question...is for you to answer.

Geeessscccch!!

You are reading condescension into my reply.
Yes it is the sacrifice of Jesus that saves.
He does not blot out the born again believers name out of the book of life

Other than that I am I have not idea what you are asking.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I guess it's my bi-annual time to post the 101 Reasons for Eternal Security! We have a number of new people that might find the MOUNTAIN of Biblical evidence astounding.

That's great. Now we need 101 verse why all of that is conditioned upon the obedience of faith. Actually, though, it only takes one.

Well because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be highminded, but fear. For if GOD did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Romans 11:20-21​

 

[preston39]

It will always remain an anomaly, a strange and mysterious motive, behind the cause for anyone who claims the name of Christ as their savior, to insist repeatedly that they are not truly and eternally his. That they insist, repeatedly, to anyone who shall listen or read, that they are conditionally saved and at any moment can do something that will send them back the way they came. Back to being dead in their sins, condemned, un-redeemed, un-saved, the un-state of being a former saved soul.

Imagine the stress of living like that. Thinking just one human misstep and they're damned again.

O...,

Since you are so deliberate in your advocacy perhaps you can show us some teaching, sermon, book or other publication prior to the 1960's, other than The Bible, which support your wrong conclusion.

Why does scripture say...fear the Lord?
That comment is just negative...one must become righteous again....what is wrong with that? The reason G-d gives us unlimited time for sin forgiveness.

 

[preston39]

You are reading condescension into my reply.
Yes it is the sacrifice of Jesus that saves.
He does not blot out the born again believers name out of the book of life

Other than that I am I have not idea what you are asking.

U...,'
But you didn't say ....sacrifice...you said righteous... in your previous post and I took issue with..because I wanted to know why.


Wrong.
A name can be removed frpom The Book of Life or The Lamb's Book of Life.
Do you know why and why there are two books?
It does not sound like you have a proper understanding.

 

[preston39]

Any and all OSAS believers;
Please explain why there are two judgement books...The Book of Life..... and .....The Lamb's book of life.

Also;....what role do they both play in G-d's final judgement?

 

[UnderGrace]

U...,'
But you didn't say ....sacrifice...you said righteous... in your previous post and I took issue with..because I wanted to know why.


Wrong.
A name can be removed frpom The Book of Life or The Lamb's Book of Life.
Do you know why and why there are two books?
It does not sound like you have a proper understanding.

Okay, lets start with the righteousness of Christ because you have confused me and why it is an issue for you?
And yes I know there are two books.

 

[preston39]

Okay, lets start with the righteousness of Christ because you have confused me and why it is an issue for you?
And yes I know there are two books.

U...,

It is an issue because you...unusually..used it in your post. I wanted to understand why. Very simple.
righteous...stipulated...... Issued resolved.

Now, why do you say that a name will not be blotted out of the book?

 

[justpassinthrough]

Rightly divide the word. The parable is not about eternal life and loosing salvation and that has already been shown to you.

I’ve only been shown someone’s opinion that is not founded on God’s word.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

If saved is not about salvation then what is?


A person must believe to be saved.


If not then please explain to us how a person is saved, if not by believing?



JPT

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes, BELIEVERS are secure in God's salvation, not unbelievers, not ex-believers. This is not in debate.

You can not stop believing and still be an heir of the promises. That's what Paul told the Galatians when they were departing from justification through faith in Christ and going back to justification through works of the law. You have to continue to believe and trust in Christ to continue to be secure in God's eternally secure salvation.

This ongoing trust and belief to secure salvation let us put in in practical terms...

If it is only one failure what would you tell the person who has stopped believing that they have lost their salvation with no hope to continue to believe again?

Stand by what you believe and make it real and practical.

If it is more than one failure of unbelief that causes loss of salvation, how many times then?

Do you really believe God is less real and concrete than we are. Make a pronouncement because then at least I will know that you really believe what you espouse.

If you go with more than once then you believe in a gospel of ongoing chances?

Which is it, search the scriptures and find the number please.

 

[gb9]

Actually, in a way that's how Paul ordered his churches. Those who were in blatant unrepentant sin were evicted. Believers were instructed to have no dealings with believers living in sin.

that is a good point. I retract what I said earlier.

how do we balance the tension in between reaching people while at the same time honoring what Paul said , and being there for people in need of support?? tough question.

 

[UnderGrace]

I’ve only been shown someone’s opinion that is not founded on God’s word.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

If saved is not about salvation then what is?


A person must believe to be saved.


If not then please explain to us how a person is saved, if not by believing?



JPT

Yes a person must believe to be saved. But which salvation are we talking about in this parable, saved in scripture does not always refer to eternal life.

 

[gb9]

Apparently, gb9 categorically rejects Paul's teaching here. We ARE to associate with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idoater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner.

you have a good point. Paul certainly did say these things. I retract what I said earlier.

see my question on post #453.

 

[dcontroversal]

What must occur to reject eternal security by faith....

a. Jesus is an inept liar that cannot keep his word
b. The bible is full of lies, tainted verb tense, deceit and not worth setting next to the toilet.

Saved to the uttermost
Kept by the powwr of God
Never leave or forsake
Believe = Eternal life
Eternal life is not eternal
In Christ's hand
In the Father's hand
Sealed by the spirit
etc.

So many truths must be denied, rejected and flat stomped on to deny and or embrace a losable salvation....and those who sell out to the-->> I keep myself saved by my own obedience gabage have not trusted Christ by faith!

 

[UnderGrace]

What must occur to reject eternal security by faith....

a. Jesus is an inept liar that cannot keep his word
b. The bible is full of lies, tainted verb tense, deceit and not worth setting next to the toilet.

Saved to the uttermost
Kept by the powwr of God
Never leave or forsake
Believe = Eternal life
Eternal life is not eternal
In Christ's hand
In the Father's hand
Sealed by the spirit
etc.

So many truths must be denied, rejected and flat stomped on to deny and or embrace a losable salvation....and those who sell out to the-->> I keep myself saved by my own obedience gabage have not trusted Christ by faith!

When I come here on occasion and read these posts, truly I find it incomprehensible.

Yes a miserable attempt to rewrite the absolute perfect plan of redemption.

This false gospel is the bad news of "finish what God started" ... "the saved/unsaved phenomenen" ... "give and take-justification (gotta love that one)" " and of course "don't stop believin (is Journey in the house?)"

But you are right underneath it all, it is about "my own obedience" saves.

It is completely Catholic doctrine.

 

[Ralph-]

This ongoing trust and belief to secure salvation let us put in in practical terms...

If it is only one failure what would you tell the person who has stopped believing that they have lost their salvation with no hope to continue to believe again?

Stand by what you believe and make it real and practical.

If it is more than one failure of unbelief that causes loss of salvation, how many times then?

Do you really believe God is less real and concrete than we are. Make a pronouncement because then at least I will know that you really believe what you espouse.

If you go with more than once then you believe in a gospel of ongoing chances?

Which is it, search the scriptures and find the number please.

Good grief, UG, I answered this already!

How long do you think God pursued the Galatians before he said 'enough is enough' and he turned them over to their unbelief as Paul said he would?

 

[UnderGrace]

Good grief, UG, I answered this already!

How long do you think God pursued the Galatians before he said 'enough is enough' and he turned them over to their unbelief as Paul said he would?

Which verse are you referring to?

 

[Ralph-]

But you are right underneath it all, it is about "my own obedience" saves.

It is completely Catholic doctrine.

No, it's all about your faith saving you. Yes, yes, we all know believing is only the conduit to that which saves--the blood of Christ--not that which actually does the saving. But nonetheless, faith is in fact how you are justified and made righteous before God (not by your works). And Paul made it clear in Galatians that you are not an heir of the promises if you stop believing/trusting in Christ for justification. Your problem is you have neglected to factor in these passages when crafting your doctrine about whether or not you can lose your salvation. Blowing them off by saying, "they don't really mean what they say" is not a satisfactory way to form doctrine.