Why so much confusion about salvation?

[ForestGreenCook]

Sorry but that dog won't hunt. It's not my understanding but scriptural understanding. You need to understand salvation from a scriptural view point. You accuse everyone who is not of a Calvinist bent that they do not understand. Well you give no evidence that you understand what it is to be saved.

You have a million excuse why everybody else is wrong but cannot see your personal error.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

All scripture must harmonize, you can not ignore the ones that you can not explain.

 

[notuptome]

All scripture must harmonize, you can not ignore the ones that you can not explain.

More falsehood. You just do not want to be saved and go to heaven.

Ac 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Sorry but that dog won't hunt. It's not my understanding but scriptural understanding. You need to understand salvation from a scriptural view point. You accuse everyone who is not of a Calvinist bent that they do not understand. Well you give no evidence that you understand what it is to be saved.

You have a million excuse why everybody else is wrong but cannot see your personal error.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I was in that group that he choose in Eph 1, and I believe you were too. Some time between our birth and our death God, when we were still dead in sins put his Spirit within us, which is called the new birth. The same group in Eph 1 is who he told Jesus to die for.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

More falsehood. You just do not want to be saved and go to heaven.

Ac 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

A much more powerful savior than yours saved the both of us and I am sorry that you can not see that. Christ's doctrine is a beautiful doctrine that allows for a number that is too large to be counted to enter heaven, and is not pleased when we try to determine who is his child or not. He sure was not happy with David when he tried to number Israel, and thousands of them died as punishment for David.

 

[Sabbatismos]

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Heb 6:7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.
Heb 6:8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

More falsehood. You just do not want to be saved and go to heaven.

Ac 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

You have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, and it is you who needs to be saved ( delivered ), just like those Isarel brethren in Romans 10. needed to be saved from their dependence on the law of works. But until you deny yourself in thinking your good works is what is going to save you eternally. you will never receive that deliverance. I believe you are already saved eternally, you just do not have the knowledge to know how you were saved.

 

[notuptome]

You have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, and it is you who needs to be saved ( delivered ), just like those Isarel brethren in Romans 10. needed to be saved from their dependence on the law of works. But until you deny yourself in thinking your good works is what is going to save you eternally. you will never receive that deliverance. I believe you are already saved eternally, you just do not have the knowledge to know how you were saved.

Keep trying to convince yourself.

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Keep trying to convince yourself.

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I fail to see how 2 Ti 1:12 has anything to do with my comments.

 

[notuptome]

I fail to see how 2 Ti 1:12 has anything to do with my comments.

Really? I would have expected a man of your extraordinary ability to understand Gods word.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Really? I would have expected a man of your extraordinary ability to understand Gods word.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger, are you telling me that you have denied yourself from your dependence on your works and accepted that God's sovereign grace has saved you? Wow! I am proud of you, I thought you would never see the light.

 

[notuptome]

Roger, are you telling me that you have denied yourself from your dependence on your works and accepted that God's sovereign grace has saved you? Wow! I am proud of you, I thought you would never see the light.

I have always claimed Gods grace. It is you that refuses grace. You expect God to force you into heaven. You will never know what God is doing with you until judgment day. You are so much like Harold Camping. Poor man dies without any assurance of eternity with Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I have always claimed Gods grace. It is you that refuses grace. You expect God to force you into heaven. You will never know what God is doing with you until judgment day. You are so much like Harold Camping. Poor man dies without any assurance of eternity with Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I believe that I am more secure in eternal salvation than you could be, considering that you are trying to secure yours by your good works. I do not know about yours, but my works are at times pretty bad and I would question whether my good works would be enough to get me to heaven. i am thankful that I do not have to depend on my good works getting me there. No matter how much you try to explain away your works, any effort or action that is required to get eternal life is considered works. Any time man has to lean on his own understanding and not on God's understanding he is in trouble. Paul is telling in Romans 10 how you can be delivered from depending upon yourself. You should read it sometime.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I believe that I am more secure in eternal salvation than you could be, considering that you are trying to secure yours by your good works.

You are clearly misrepresenting Roger to make a point. And that is not kosher. It is one thing to misrepresent the Gospel through Calvinistic distortion, but you will not find Roger saying that his salvation is secured by good works. Quite the opposite.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You are clearly misrepresenting Roger to make a point. And that is not kosher. It is one thing to misrepresent the Gospel through Calvinistic distortion, but you will not find Roger saying that his salvation is secured by good works. Quite the opposite.

You are clearly misrepresenting Roger to make a point. And that is not kosher. It is one thing to misrepresent the Gospel through Calvinistic distortion, but you will not find Roger saying that his salvation is secured by good works. Quite the opposite.

Definition of good works= accept, repent, believe, submit, respond etc. anytime an action or response required from man to allow God to give him eternal life is works which makes man responsible for being his own savior. I can not find anyone that understands 1 Cor 2:14. It seems that they just ignore it. The natural man, void of the Spirit, can not understand anything that is of a spiritual nature. It is foolishness unto him. He can not respond to spiritual things by accepting, repenting, confessing, believing.

 

[theanointedsinner]

the answer to the thread title is simple: Satan is the author of confusion

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Definition of good works= accept, repent, believe, submit, respond etc. anytime an action or response required from man to allow God to give him eternal life is works which makes man responsible for being his own savior. I can not find anyone that understands 1 Cor 2:14. It seems that they just ignore it. The natural man, void of the Spirit, can not understand anything that is of a spiritual nature. It is foolishness unto him. He can not respond to spiritual things by accepting, repenting, confessing, believing.

These types of works, when you have been born of the Spirit, can save ( deliver ) you, and that salvation (deliverance ) is while you live here on earth, but these types of works will never be able to save you eternally. That is why there is so much confusion about how a person is saved eternally.. Most people do not realize that most of the salvation scriptures are referring to a deliverance we receive right here on earth by our obedience to God by repenting, confessing, believing, accepting etc.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You are clearly misrepresenting Roger to make a point. And that is not kosher. It is one thing to misrepresent the Gospel through Calvinistic distortion, but you will not find Roger saying that his salvation is secured by good works. Quite the opposite.

I have at least told Roger that I think he has evidence that he is a child of God, and I have thanked him for his concern in trying to save me, because he thinks that I will go to hell if I don't follow his instructions on how to be saved.

 

[preston39]

The Church is divided around the question of salvation, there are so many different doctrines being taught in the various denominations.
The Gospel is not clear cut, it can be understood in many different ways. Some say that God chose to save people before they are born as in the "elect of God", others say that only those who follow Christ to the end will be saved. The Catholic Church teaches that there's no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

I don't think that God will hold it against the ordinary person who may have been taught the wrong Gospel. I think those who deliberately teach a false Gospel will be punished, but those who were deceived will be forgiven.

Every denomination convinces their congregation that they teach the true Gospel, only those who have spent many years studying all the different teachings can make an educated decision. The rest of the 1.49 billion Christians don't have the time to spend 3 years in seminary to become Bible scholars.
So I'm pretty sure God takes that into consideration, He expects much of those who have been given much.

S...,

I would beg to disagree;.....If true...then why does scripture warn us that .....each is responsible for complying...... with G-d's word?
We are reminded that scriptures teaches us there are only three things we must do for eternal salvation;....
Repentance
Baptism
Live a righteous life

Those items are presented in The Bible several times.... in a manner that a child of ten can understand them.

 

[Slayer]

S...,

I would beg to disagree;.....If true...then why does scripture warn us that .....each is responsible for complying...... with G-d's word?
We are reminded that scriptures teaches us there are only three things we must do for eternal salvation;....
Repentance
Baptism
Live a righteous life

Those items are presented in The Bible several times.... in a manner that a child of ten can understand them.

S...,

I would beg to disagree;.....If true...then why does scripture warn us that .....each is responsible for complying...... with G-d's word?
We are reminded that scriptures teaches us there are only three things we must do for eternal salvation;....
Repentance
Baptism
Live a righteous life

Those items are presented in The Bible several times.... in a manner that a child of ten can understand them.

That's not what my Bible tells me, my Bible simply states that all a person needs to do to be saved is "BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST" and ye shall be saved.

It doesn't say anything about keeping the law, that's old testament stuff and baptism isn't necessary either. You shouldn't twist the Gospel to accommodate your theory, the thief on the cross didn't get the chance to be baptized or live a righteous life. He simply believed and it was counted to him as righteousness.

There are many Christians who believe in this new age gospel where they intermingle the old and new covenants. Our preacher warns us about them on a regular basis, he has said some pretty damning things to say about them so alarm bells ring when I hear people adding works to the finished work of Christ on the cross.

 

[preston39]

That's not what my Bible tells me, my Bible simply states that all a person needs to do to be saved is "BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST" and ye shall be saved.

It doesn't say anything about keeping the law, that's old testament stuff and baptism isn't necessary either. You shouldn't twist the Gospel to accommodate your theory, the thief on the cross didn't get the chance to be baptized or live a righteous life. He simply believed and it was counted to him as righteousness.

There are many Christians who believe in this new age gospel where they intermingle the old and new covenants. Our preacher warns us about them on a regular basis, he has said some pretty damning things to say about them so alarm bells ring when I hear people adding works to the finished work of Christ on the cross.

s...,
Not true. The Thief need not be baptized...He was not under the new covenant. He was under the old covenant.
We must keep items in scripture...in contexts.
Further, you do not know the history of the thief. We would have to opinion;...mine would be that he was a backsliderr eaue he seemed ver familiar with Christ.