OSAS= House Built on Sand

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Mar 28, 2016
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We keep trusting in Him!


OSAS teaches that we no longer have to believe, trust or be committed to Him, yet somehow remain saved.


You got it backwards.




JPT
I would disagree. Who said we no longer have to trust him as he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteous not of our own self lest any man boast in false pride ?

Abraham Rehab?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.James 2:23
 
Sep 4, 2012
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You are preaching doubt and gibberish. I'm not sure if many really believe what you and a few others are saying about doubt but all they would have to do is read the bible and pray to dispel all the silliness that you talk about.
I think those who cast doubt on the warnings and admonitions to persevere in the faith are putting a stumbling block in front of believers.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I would disagree. Who said we no longer have to trust him as he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteous not of our own self lest any man boast in false pride ?

Abraham Rehab?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.James 2:23

Those who promote OSAS, claim that a person does not need to continue to believe, [trust and commit to obey Christ] in order to receive eternal life, because once they are saved, they are always saved.



JPT
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I'm starting to think that the ones who take issue with you don't really understand eternal security. It seems that a fear of failing is behind the belief that believers don't have to do anything, which is completely contrary to scripture.

I do believe that believers can become ex-believers; I've seen it happen several times, and the bible witnesses as much. Yet I also feel very secure in that knowledge. It drives me towards GOD, not away from him. There is perfect security in GOD through our faith in his faithfulness. There is zero security outside of faith.
Yes outside of his work of faith that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure there is zero security .He is our confidence (Philippians 1:6)If he has begun the good work in us he will finish it to the end as the better thing that accompanies salvation according to Hebrew 6. And not after those others in that chapter that crucify him over and over exposing him to public shame as if once was not enough to satisfy the just demands of the law of the Father.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Those who promote OSAS, claim that a person does not need to continue to believe, [trust and commit to obey Christ] in order to receive eternal life, because once they are saved, they are always saved.



JPT
I hear you but have not heard them ?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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And not after those others in that chapter that crucify him over and over exposing him to public shame as if once was not enough to satisfy the just demands of the law of the Father.
There is no crucifying Christ over and over. Those who abandon the faith are not allowed to crucify him again.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
It seems that a fear of failing is behind the belief that believers don't have to do anything, which is completely contrary to scripture.
That's what I suspect, too.

We live in difficult times here in Western culture that makes the 'once saved always saved' doctrine appear especially attractive. I wish they understood that it isn't their struggle with sin that causes a person to lose their salvation and the promised inheritance. Giving up the struggle and going back to the world in unbelief is what causes one to forfeit the inheritance they have received through faith in Christ.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
The only people who "lose their salvation" are those who made a false profession of faith but they were never true believers in the first place.
Which means no one can ever know if they are truly saved until after they die when all testings to see if they'll fail or not have been completed. But for some reason that doctrine is touted as the doctrine of peace and security and assurance. That's why I say most 'once saved always saved' adherents don't really understand their own doctrine and haven't thought it out very well. If they did, they'd understand they actually have the most insecure and unsure doctrine of salvation out there.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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Those who promote OSAS, claim that a person does not need to continue to believe, [trust and commit to obey Christ] in order to receive eternal life, because once they are saved, they are always saved.



JPT
That's false in its entirety. The replies in this 10 page thread demonstrate that. Why would you present such a falsehood?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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There is no crucifying Christ over and over. Those who abandon the faith are not allowed to crucify him again.

I would suggest those who abandon the non faith as in none, not little are not allowed to crucify even once. No faith of Christ. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ (the Spirit of faith) in respect to the work of His faith than neither do they know God or could they.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Which means no one can ever know if they are truly saved until after they die...
This is completely false. Why don't you simply stick to Scripture?

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13).
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I think those who cast doubt on the warnings and admonitions to persevere in the faith are putting a stumbling block in front of believers.
Doubt is the stumbling block.

It is needed for any type of works-based salvation.

But for Real Salvation doubt is not needed.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I have zero issues with the eternal security of the believer. Only believers, not former believers, have the security of God's eternal salvation.



Why would I need to bring the fact that it is only believers, not former believers, who have eternal life before God in prayer?
Scripture is clear we are born from above once. When we are born from above we receive the gift of eternal life.

Every post that I read that denies the gift of eternal life being eternal, denies the role of the ultimate "will of God" in the life of the believer and places the will of the believer above God, when it is He who declares the person justified completely and once and for all, based on the work of Christ Jesus

What I really cannot understand for those who believe salvation can be lost, forfeited, forsaken, revoked is how you even begin to understand the New Covenant.

Adam had daily personal fellowship with God, he knew God and he messed up, do people really think they can do better than Adam?

Conditional salvation places the believer in the same precarious position!!! Do you think God wants us there again?

I praise God that He made a way so that the New Adam (Christ) has placed me in a secure place.
The devil loves conditional salvation because it robs Jesus of all that He accomplished and is accomplishing in the life of the believer not because of who they are in their frailty and sinfulness but because of who He is and His victory.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Those who promote OSAS, claim that a person does not need to continue to believe, [trust and commit to obey Christ] in order to receive eternal life, because once they are saved, they are always saved.



JPT
Those who do not understand the eternal assurance of the believer place their trust in themselves to keep themselves saved.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Conditional salvation places the believer in the same precarious position!!! Do you think God wants us there again?

I praise God that He made a way so that the New Adam (Christ) has placed me in a secure place.
The devil loves conditional salvation because it robs Jesus of all that He accomplished and is accomplishing in the life of the believer not because of who they are in their frailty and sinfulness but because of who He is and His victory.
There never has been something called unconditional salvation. It has always been, and still is, dependent upon faith and "Obey my voice". GOD is long suffering, but he does not save people without faith in him, whether they never had it, or they abandoned it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously kidding themselves.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
There never has been something called unconditional salvation. It has always been, and still is, dependent upon faith and "Obey my voice". GOD is long suffering, but he does not save people without faith in him, whether they never had it, or they abandoned it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously kidding themselves.
So then you are saved based upon how well you obey?

Can you provide an example of the standard of obedience that will save me?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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So then you are saved based upon how well you obey?

Can you provide an example of the standard of obedience that will save me?
The standard of obedience is remaining in Christ. Whatever that takes is what you do. Denying the faith is not remaining in Christ.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Being Submissive/ Faithful/Obedient To Him= Accurate

Just Believe/Accept Him as Saviour= Bad Translation in English

(Tranlations are mine from the Greek.
*All 41 occurrences of the Greek phrase
πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν
are listed below in context)​

Part I
Mat 18:6 ὅς δ᾿ ἂν σκανδαλίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων τῶν πιστευόντων εἰς ἐμέ, συμφέρει αὐτῷ ἵνα κρεμασθῇ μύλος ὀνικὸς εἰς τὸν τράχηλον αὐτοῦ καὶ καταποντισθῇ ἐν τῷ πελάγει τῆς θαλάσσης.
Mat 18:6 “Whoever should cause one of these little ones who are continually submissive and faithful to me to sin, it is better for him that a millstone of a donkey be tied around his neck and he be submerged in the depth of the open sea.” (repeated in Mk 9:42)

Joh 1:12 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα Θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Joh 1:12 As many people that received him, he gave to them the privilege to become children of God—to the ones that are continually submissive and obedient to his authority.

Joh 2:11 Ταύτην ἐποίησε ἀρχὴν τῶν σημείων ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς ἐν Κανὰ τῆς Γαλιλαίας καὶ ἐφανέρωσε τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ.
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miraculous signs Yahshua performed in Cana of Galilee and he manifested his splendor. And his disciples were submissive to him.

Joh 2:23 ῾Ως δὲ ἦν τοῖς ῾Ιεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει.
Joh 2:23 While he was in Jerusalem during the festival of the Passover, many people were submissive to his authority as they were seeing the miracles that he did.

Joh 3:14 καὶ καθὼς Μωϋσῆς ὕψωσε τὸν ὄφιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ, οὕτως ὑψωθῆναι δεῖ τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,
Joh 3:15 ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Joh 3:16 οὕτω γὰρ ἡγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Jn 3:14-16 “And in the same way that Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, it is necessary for the Son of Humanity likewise to be lifted up, in order that everyone who is continually faithful and submissive to him should not be destroyed, but instead, possess age-abiding Life. Because God in this manner was lovingly-devoted to the cosmos: to the point that he gave his one-of-a-kind son, in order that every person who is constantly submissive and obedient to him might not be destroyed, but instead possess age-abiding Life.”

Joh 3:18 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν οὐ κρίνεται, ὁ δὲ μὴ πιστεύων ἤδη κέκριται, ὅτι μὴ πεπίστευκεν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ μονογενοῦς Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ.
Joh 3:18 “The one who is obedient to him is not judged; but the one who is not faithful is already judged, because he has not been submissive to the authority of the unique-in-kind son of God.

Joh 3:36 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ Υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν, ἀλλ᾿ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ Θεοῦ μένει ἐπ᾿ αὐτόν.
Joh 3:36 The person who is submissively being obedient to the son possesses age-abiding Life; but the person who is being disobedient to the son will not see Life. Instead, the wrath of God is remaining on top of him.

Joh 4:39 ᾿Εκ δὲ τῆς πόλεως ἐκείνης πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν τῶν Σαμαριτῶν διὰ τὸν λόγον τῆς γυναικὸς, μαρτυρούσης ὅτι εἶπέ μοι πάντα ὅσα ἐποίησα.
Joh 4:39 Many people of the Samaritans from that city became faithful to him on account of the statement of the woman who testified, “He told me everything that I have done!”

Joh 6:29 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ ἔργον τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἵνα πιστεύσητε εἰς ὃν ἀπέστειλεν ἐκεῖνος.
Joh 6:29 Yahshua answered and told them, “This is the 'work of God': that you should be submissive and faithful to the person that he sent!

Joh 6:35 εἶπε δὲ αὐτοῖς ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς· ὁ ἐρχόμενος πρός ἐμὲ οὐ μὴ πεινάσῃ, καὶ ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ οὐ διψήσει πώποτε.
Joh 6:35 Yahshua told them, “I am Life's Bread. The person constantly approaching me will never be hungry, and the person being consistantly submissive and faithful to me will not ever be thirsty.”

Joh 6:40 τοῦτο δὲ ἐστι τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.
Joh 6:40 “This is the intention of the one who sent me: in order that everyone who is constantly looking to the son, and being always submissive and faithful to him, may have age-abiding Life. And I will resurrect him in the Last Day.”

(Part II next)
Really? where do these people come from? When are they going to repent and place their faith in the rock, and not in themselves?

A house on the sand can fall (Salvation can be lost) because it is built on sand

A house built on the rock (Christ) will never fall. (OSAS) because the foundation is christ.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Those who do not understand the eternal assurance of the believer place their trust in themselves to keep themselves saved.

Those who believe for a while are saved for a while.


13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13



JPT
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Those who believe for a while are saved for a while.


13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13



JPT
What part of “have no root” (christ) do you not understand??????