R
Ralph-
Guest
And it's quite nice to be able to respond to his stuff without his interference.
Oh goody another OSAS thread!
- Thread starter RickyZ
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Jesus is teaching His disciples, what to do, using this analogy of a shepherd and sheep.
So when He goes to heaven and is seated on the Throne, His disciples will follow His instructions.
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-ninejust persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7
If then sheep returns [repents], he will be reconciled back to the Shepherd [found].
Until he repents, and turns back to God, he is lost.
Lost = Sinner in need of repentance; spiritually dead. Needs to be reconciled.
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32
I know you understand this very simple princile.
A person who wanders away from God is lost, and must repent, just like they did when they were first saved, in order to be reconciled to God, otherwise they are spiritually dead.
How can you possibly not know this?
James plainly says this exact thing!
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
- wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back
Someone must go and turn the lost person back.
- let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
A brother who has wandered from the truth, is as a sinner in need of repentance in order to be reconciled back to God.
- will save a soul from death
A brother who has wandered away from God is in danger of eternal death, if they don't repent and turn back to God.
- cover a multitude of sins.
Whoever turns a wayward brother who is lost, back to God, is walking in love: Love covers a multitude of sin.
JPT
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
And what did he say?
HIS SHEEP KNOW HIS VOICE. And FOLLOW HIM
Those who do not respond, where never his sheep to begin with.
Sorry. Just completely wrong. The SHEPHERD goes to find the lost sheep.
And He will look UNTIL He finds him.
Jesus always refers to sheep as synonymous with His Children.
I can explain it to you, unfortunately I can't understand, or believe it for you.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
N
NoNameMcgee
Guest
Also, 1 further point. This was a parable spoken to the PHARISEES! Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man [a]receives sinners and eats with them.” 3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
So how absurd to say that it is for His disciples to use to go and find sheep!! This man needs some prayer for Spiritual discernment.
So how absurd to say that it is for His disciples to use to go and find sheep!! This man needs some prayer for Spiritual discernment.
Yes, on this we agree.
One of his children, who wanders away from Him, has become lost.
This does not somehow change the definition of what lost means.
Look at the language and words Jesus uses.
Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents
- Lost = Separated from God: A sinner in need of repentance: Dead to God
- Found = Reconciled to God; Saved; Alive to God
Is the sheep who represents a child of God, that is lost, reconciled to God or separated from God, just like a sinner in need of repentance?
Jesus is in heaven, seated at the right hand of God.
It is by His Spirit working in us that we are to accomplish to work of the ministry, whether it is preaching the Gospel to unbelievers, or to go after His people who have gone astray and become lost.
Jesus is teach His disciples this very thing, in Luke 15.
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7
- What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
What I believe, is it us up to us, who have Christ dwelling in our hearts, to do the things He taught us in scripture.
Jesus is not going to do the work of the ministry for us, but rather through us: Through our obedience to Him.
Look at what James instructs us to do concerning this very thing, about those who wander away.
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5;19-20
- if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
The condition for a brother who has wandered away from the Lord, and has become lost, to be turned back so his soul will be saved from death. is "someone" has to go and find him and turn him back.
JPT
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Here is a person who does not believe in the diety of christ, who thinks he is bound to the throne room and is oblivious to what happens to each of his children, and is unable to do as he promised.
If jesus said he will leave flock to find one lost soul, by golly he will do it.
R
Ralph-
Guest
We know from the Matthew 18 version that Jesus was not suggesting that he always finds the lost sheep and brings it home:
"will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off."-Matthew 18:12-13
"Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? "-Luke 15:4
But, surely, what you can know is he is very persistent and makes every effort to bring his sheep back who have wandered away, i.e. the Galatians.
Yeah.. Cause ya know, the Lord can be kinda inept sometimes and and not find our hiding spots! Of course that view violates a ton of Scripture like this:
Psalm 139:
7 Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from your presence?
8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
9 If I take the wings of the morning
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 even there your hand shall lead me,
and your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me,
and the light about me be night,”
12 even the darkness is not dark to you;
the night is bright as the day,
for darkness is as light with you.
Sorry Ralph. Had to be done. Ya gotta respect me for it!
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0c393caa-9387-46de-ba8f-e3bb41ae2d55
So the people in hell, are going to turn back to Him, because He knows where they are ?
- If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
Just because the Lord knows where you are, doesn't mean a sheep who is lost is going to repent?
You have completely ignored what Jesus taught about this subject of one of His sheep who becomes lost.
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7
Without the lost sheep repenting, turning back to the Lord, then there will be no rejoicing over him repenting because he will be lost.
Look at what James instructs us to do concerning this very thing, about those who wander away.
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5;19-20
- if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
The condition for a brother who has wandered away from the Lord, and has become lost, to be turned back so his soul will be saved from death. is "someone" has to go and find him and turn him back.
JPT
R
Ralph-
Guest
I think you and me both know 'finding' a lost sheep means bringing him/her back to the fold in belief. Matthew 18:13 shows us that there's an 'if' hanging over whether God will 'find' all the sheep that depart from the flock.
The person who says this is not saved himself. Go to Genesis, when the serpent twisted, and lied and deceived Eve. He said, you surely won't die, you will know. All that was a lie. She did die spiritually away from God's glory, his obedience, and was cast out of the garden. Disobedience brought that. The arc angel was cast out of heaven, because he lifted up himself above God, and wanted to take his Throne, pride, really is separation, and it could be sin, as the words say, God resists the proud, and gives his grace, his mercy to the humble. All through the New Testament, it talks about choose this day, no man could serve to master. either you love one and hate the other, Be not lukewarm. Rev. Such deception, to deceive the human soul to be separated from a Holy Father. Though he is merciful, and willing to forgive, as the prodigal son, came back, there is damage done, to self and others, in choosing the wrong road, some have to live with that, even coming back in a back sliden state , some damage's would be said by some, they wish they never did that, or it only they knew. Christ, knew, and knows and warns us, we will reap what we sow.
Love this scripture too. For many are called, but few are chosen. Wide is the road that leads to death, spiritual and destruction, and many go on it, but narrow is the road that leads to life and peace, and few be there on. It's not osas. Do your thing, it's the flesh, have the mind of Christ, is the spirit. Sad scenario what's happened, to some who don't read their bibles, and put someone else on God's throne.
Love this scripture too. For many are called, but few are chosen. Wide is the road that leads to death, spiritual and destruction, and many go on it, but narrow is the road that leads to life and peace, and few be there on. It's not osas. Do your thing, it's the flesh, have the mind of Christ, is the spirit. Sad scenario what's happened, to some who don't read their bibles, and put someone else on God's throne.
Yes the fear of man is a snare. a Trap unto them own selves.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. bv Fear of man is a snare, we don't live in fear, we live in Jesus peace, we don't fear to lose salvation, it's a choice, Lead me not into temptation deliver me from all evil.
Samson lost his anointing, going into the flesh, DAivd brough a sword into his home, Eve was afraid she was not completed by God, there must be something more she should know, by being deceived. We are completed by a mighty Lord and God. Dread fear, is not perfected in that person then, for the word says, this; Perfect love casts out fear. FEar is used as another word of We fear the Lord, as We honor him. We believe him, and trust him. REspect his word, is fearing him and his wrath, not fearing losing his love towards us.
Amen! To fear the Lord as fear of offending God and a righteous awe and respect for Him (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2). Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up. That is an unhealthy fear! I also had no assurance of salvation. Going through life on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security is certainly no way to live the Christian life, but misery does love company.
