Is Messiah,(The Anointed One) the Father?
- Thread starter JohnTalmid
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I have no time for extra biblical issues but if you want verses where Jesus has called himself the holy spirit- go back and read my earlier posts.
That is the verse that shows how the son is being sent real time, everything else in the new testament only refers to that verse.
On two witnesses- You didn't get what Jesus said:
John 8:14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.
......24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
The Father's testimony is the prophesy that Jesus was fulfilling so there was no two separate persons but one person. And He purposely referred them to Isaiah 43 when He said those words in John 8:24
Isa 43:
10“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
11I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me there is no savior.
12I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—
I, and not some foreign god among you.
You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.
13Yes, and from ancient days I am he....
If this verses in Isaiah 43 are not a prophesy what are they? and if they are prophesy, how would see them fulfilled other than God Himself being in our midst referring us back to what He proclaimed before?
This is what Jesus was referring to as the Father's testimony.
For more:
John 5:
31“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
33“You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
36“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
Again, no two separate persons but the works.
That is the verse that shows how the son is being sent real time, everything else in the new testament only refers to that verse.
On two witnesses- You didn't get what Jesus said:
John 8:14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.
......24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
The Father's testimony is the prophesy that Jesus was fulfilling so there was no two separate persons but one person. And He purposely referred them to Isaiah 43 when He said those words in John 8:24
Isa 43:
10“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
11I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me there is no savior.
12I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—
I, and not some foreign god among you.
You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.
13Yes, and from ancient days I am he....
If this verses in Isaiah 43 are not a prophesy what are they? and if they are prophesy, how would see them fulfilled other than God Himself being in our midst referring us back to what He proclaimed before?
This is what Jesus was referring to as the Father's testimony.
For more:
John 5:
31“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
33“You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
36“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
Again, no two separate persons but the works.
And you are still behind the news. The Father/Son/Holy spirit are authorities of God at different times. The son is the authority of God on the earth initiated by Jesus when He demonstrated sonship/christship to the believers. We believers have been granted authority to overcome everything including death but when all is said and done, we will be subject to the one that gave us the authority- that is what it means but at the moment, we wear christ and are like Him.
Gal 2:20I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Luke 10:
18He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
21At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
22“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
It is Jesus who is our Father that gives us the authority to overcome evil.
Gal 2:20I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Luke 10:
18He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
21At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
22“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
It is Jesus who is our Father that gives us the authority to overcome evil.
You think you know but you don't know. Christ submitting authority to the one who gave Him doesn't mean Jesus hands over anything, in other parts it is represented as the kingdom being handed over to God but you should know better that God Himself is within the hearts of these people that form the kingdom- it actually means restoration.
There are verses illustrating God's unity. There are verses illustrating disctinction between the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit.
If we take only the first group as a basis and see the other group as not literal, we will end up with oneness.
If we take only the second group as a basis and see the first group as not literal, we will end with three Gods.
If we take both verses as a basis, we will end up with one God and three entities in Him. This one is the most hard for a human mind to grasp, but its the only one biblical.
----
Any theology that makes God to be easy to grasp bears a sign of being made by man. Cat's god will look like a cat, dog's god will look like a dog. The sign of a true God is that He is different and not what you expect.
If we take only the first group as a basis and see the other group as not literal, we will end up with oneness.
If we take only the second group as a basis and see the first group as not literal, we will end with three Gods.
If we take both verses as a basis, we will end up with one God and three entities in Him. This one is the most hard for a human mind to grasp, but its the only one biblical.
----
Any theology that makes God to be easy to grasp bears a sign of being made by man. Cat's god will look like a cat, dog's god will look like a dog. The sign of a true God is that He is different and not what you expect.
So, when you go to a court, what you wrote several years ago is one witness and what you say today is the second witness. And we now have two witnesses.
Yeah, try that...
The Father is God of the Son. Therefore the Father is not the Son.
The Father sent His Son. Therefor the Father is not the Son.
Etc.
Yeah, try that...
The Father is God of the Son. Therefore the Father is not the Son.
The Father sent His Son. Therefor the Father is not the Son.
Etc.
The people that accused Him did not see two people, that's why they accused Him of being a witness to Himself. Jesus' answer is above what you think just like it was above what the Pharisees thought.
I don't need to try, it has all been explained.
1 Tim 3:16 By common confession,the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.
I don't need to try, it has all been explained.
1 Tim 3:16 By common confession,the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.
The verse is not talking about Father or son or logos, it is talking about God. It is the mystery of godliness not logoness.
God manifested in flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels,was proclaimed among the nations. If they wanted to say logos, they would have just said so.
God manifested in flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels,was proclaimed among the nations. If they wanted to say logos, they would have just said so.
This is what I think. I weigh one in one hand, and the other in the other hand, and find something speaking to me in between them. What those entities are is probably beyond our grasp. Even so, I do think that there is only one person in the godhead with a physical body, just like we only have one physical body, yet are much more.
Here's some of what I have gleaned from scripture:
Here's some of what I have gleaned from scripture:
- Jesus is GOD
- Jesus is man
- The one true GOD is the father
- Jesus was sent by the one true GOD
- The father is invisible
- Jesus is the visible form of GOD
- The father is spirit
- Jesus is a man with flesh
- The father dwells in the high and holy place where no man can approach
- Jesus dwelt on earth with sinners
- The father sits on his throne
- Jesus sits on a throne at the father's right hand
- The father is greater than the son
- The son is submitted to the father's authority
- GOD is one GOD
And that's why it is a mystery but who are you to tell God what He can or can not do?
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.