Is Messiah,(The Anointed One) the Father?

[Noose]

Still the fact stands that the Father is authority over Jesus. The Father is God of Jesus. Which is in a perfect agreement with J 1:1

Nope.

There is no authority above the authority of Jesus- Fact.
The Father (God) has authority over the son(us) as was demonstrated by Jesus- Fact
John 1:1 or any other scripture don't insinuate three distinct persons in one being or that the Father is not the son and that the son is not the Holy spirit. This is what you are required to demonstrate for your doctrine to have legs but you have failed.

Instead, you are busy trying to show us how the Father and the son are two separate individuals sinking very deep into your own delusion.

 

[trofimus]

Nope.

There is no authority above the authority of Jesus- Fact.
The Father (God) has authority over the son(us) as was demonstrated by Jesus- Fact
John 1:1 or any other scripture don't insinuate three distinct persons in one being or that the Father is not the son and that the son is not the Holy spirit. This is what you are required to demonstrate for your doctrine to have legs but you have failed.

Instead, you are busy trying to show us how the Father and the son are two separate individuals sinking very deep into your own delusion.

The authority of God the Father over Jesus is visible everywhere:

"The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet."
Mk 12:36

not my will, but yours be done
Lk 22:42

Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
J 17:5

...therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
Heb 1:9

 

[Noose]

The authority of God the Father over Jesus is visible everywhere:

"The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet."
Mk 12:36

not my will, but yours be done
Lk 22:42

Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
J 17:5

...therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
Heb 1:9

You are still far from understanding; the Father is with respect to the son not Jesus- Jesus is the Father/Son/holy spirit; three authorities at different times.
The verses that you are quoting don't show distinction and yet one being at the same time.

 

[trofimus]

You are still far from understanding; the Father is with respect to the son not Jesus- Jesus is the Father/Son/holy spirit; three authorities at different times.
The verses that you are quoting don't show distinction and yet one being at the same time.

Jesus is the name of the Son:

Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you shall give Him the name Jesus.
Lk 1:31

Jesus is not the Father, because Father sent him:

the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father
J 6:57

 

[Noose]

Jesus is the name of the Son:

Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you shall give Him the name Jesus.
Lk 1:31

Jesus is not the Father, because Father sent him:

the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father
J 6:57

Nope.

When the bible uses the word name, it actually means Authority and Jesus has so many names like:

Isa 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call Him Immanuel.

Does this mean that Jesus would actually be literally be called Emmanuel or that shows who He is actually- God with us.

So when the bible says His name shall be Jesus it actually means His authority shall be The Father/Son/Holy spirit, the authority that saves.

You are yet to show us the verses that says Jesus is not the Father. I know the Father sent Him but scriptures shows very clearly that God sent himself but picks the authority of the son/servant and claims to come from the authority of the Father/master. Not a big deal.

 

[trofimus]

You are still far from understanding; the Father is with respect to the son not Jesus- Jesus is the Father/Son/holy spirit; three authorities at different times.
The verses that you are quoting don't show distinction and yet one being at the same time.

Give me examples from the Bible where the HOly Sprit is called "Jesus". I can give you tons of verses calling the Son Jesus.

"the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father " does not show distinction between Son and Father? Really?

You are inventing your own Christianity.

 

[trofimus]

when the bible says...it actually means...

This is oneness theology in a nutshell.

 

[Noose]

Give me examples from the Bible where the HOly Sprit is called "Jesus". I can give you tons of verses calling the Son Jesus.

Sure.

John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforter to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you. ...

23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give lifeto your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who dwells within you.

"the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father

" does not show distinction between Son and Father? Really?

You are inventing your own Christianity.

Distinction is not my problem, 'distinct yet one' is my problem. Show me where the bible talks of three distinct persons yet one being.

 

[Noose]

This is oneness theology in a nutshell.

Says the one who thinks that when the bible says "..right hand of God.." it actually means God has a physical right hand.

 

[trofimus]

Sure.

John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforter to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you. ...

23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give lifeto your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who dwells within you.

Where is the Holy Spirit called by the name Jesus.

Distinction is not my problem, 'distinct yet one' is my problem. Show me where the bible talks of three distinct persons yet one being.

So you agree that the Father and the Son are different persons?

 

[trofimus]

Says the one who thinks that when the bible says "..right hand of God.." it actually means God has a physical right hand.

Do not lie. Lies do not help your case and, in fact, prove it to be wrong.

 

[Noose]

Where is the Holy Spirit called by the name Jesus.

Again, your misunderstanding fails. We know that name means authority and you are asking me the role/authority of the holy spirit in salvation because Jesus actually means salvation- God saves.
If you don't believe in Jesus (The Father/Son/Holy spirit) you can not be saved.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son can have the Father; whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.
Denying christ is denying both Father and son because Christ means Father and son.

So you agree that the Father and the Son are different persons?

Nope.
Different/distinct authorities by one person.

 

[Noose]

Do not lie. Lies do not help your case and, in fact, prove it to be wrong.

I don't have a case, just truth and it's true you have used Psalms 110:1 to try to prove your doctrine by showing how Jesus sits on the right hand of someone who to you is the Father. A total misunderstanding and misapplication of the scripture to back a false doctrine.

I had to take time and explain to you what the scripture actually means and i'm taking my time again to explain to you all these verses that you are misquoting and misapplying to your false doctrine.

 

[trofimus]

I don't have a case, just truth and it's true you have used Psalms 110:1 to try to prove your doctrine by showing how Jesus sits on the right hand of someone who to you is the Father. A total misunderstanding and misapplication of the scripture to back a false doctrine.

I had to take time and explain to you what the scripture actually means and i'm taking my time again to explain to you all these verses that you are misquoting and misapplying to your false doctrine.

I never said that the Father has physical hands, eyes, sides etc.

I only said that Father cannot be Son.

 

[trofimus]

Again, your misunderstanding fails. We know that name means authority and you are asking me the role/authority of the holy spirit in salvation because Jesus actually means salvation- God saves.
If you don't believe in Jesus (The Father/Son/Holy spirit) you can not be saved.

Do you have any example from all the Bible (1000 pages) of the Holy Spirit to be called "Jesus"?

Yes/no.

Nope.
Different/distinct authorities by one person.

This is about one person? Really? You cannot be serious.

the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father
J 6:57

In that case you and your biological father are one person too.

 

[Noose]

I never said that the Father has physical hands, eyes, sides etc.

I only said that Father cannot be Son.

So where in the bible does it say the Father can not be the son?

All over the bible, Jesus has been called the Father and Jesus has called Himself the Father.

John 14: 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

John 16:12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

 

[Noose]

Do you have any example from all the Bible (1000 pages) of the Holy Spirit to be called "Jesus"?

Yes/no.

Yes. Literally all the 1000 pages so long as you understand that in those 1000 pages, name means authority.
If You want me to explain to you something in an extra biblical way then i'm sorry but as long as you understand your own question and ask for a biblical explanation, then i'm happy to do it.

Biblicaly, you are asking me if the authority of the Holy spirit has a role in salvation- Yes He does, without Him there's no son or Father and without the son and the Father there's no salvation.

Note- Jesus means salvation.

This is about one person? Really? You cannot be serious.

the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father
J 6:57

In that case you and your biological father are one person too.

How does the Father send the son except by becoming the son?

Mal 3:1 "I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty

The Father sent the son by becoming the son Himself.

 

[trofimus]

Yes. Literally all the 1000 pages so long as you understand that in those 1000 pages, name means authority.
If You want me to explain to you something in an extra biblical way then i'm sorry but as long as you understand your own question and ask for a biblical explanation, then i'm happy to do it.

Biblicaly, you are asking me if the authority of the Holy spirit has a role in salvation- Yes He does, without Him there's no son or Father and without the son and the Father there's no salvation.

Note- Jesus means salvation.

You say "yes", but the answer is "no".

You have only your interpretations. You have not even one explicit example of the Holy Spirit to be called "Jesus". But still, its your basic belief.

How does the Father send the son except by becoming the son?

Mal 3:1 "I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty

The Father sent the son by becoming the son Himself.

So, one verse in Malachi is more for you than 100 verses in the New Testament. This is called "to have an agenda".

If the Father became the Son, how can they be two witnesses?
"In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."
J 8:18

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There is no authority above the authority of Jesus- Fact.

Fact check

For "[GOD] subjected all things under [Christ's] feet;" but when he says that all things have been subjected, it is plain that it excepts [GOD] who has subjected all things to [Christ]. But when all things are subjected to [Christ], then the son Himself also will be subjected to [GOD] who has subjected all things to [Christ], that GOD may be all things in all. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I never said that the Father has physical hands, eyes, sides etc.

I only said that Father cannot be Son.

The bible witnesses that Christ is the visible form of the invisible GOD. I would like for someone to show me in scripture where the father has the visible form of a person. Or the holy spirit for that matter.