Not By Works

preston39 · Jul 23, 2018

T...,
I do not understand how you/one can conclude this without specific scripture.
Do you have one?

I know of people who were committed to Christ and are a back slider now.
One, because His sister went through a horrible experience with mush pain associated with cancer and death. He just walked away from G-d.
Remember The Bible says that we...." must maintain until the end". ...our commitment to G-d. A clear acknowledgement that some may stray....and they do.

50C1AL0N3 · Jul 23, 2018

Alright now just love one another and praise God

50C1AL0N3 · Jul 23, 2018

Though I don't know any of you personally, by the granting grace of God I love you all

50C1AL0N3 · Jul 23, 2018

benhur said:

But if you acted as if you had a"knew heart" you would come off being high minded claiming you already knew of or about this or that. That would turn people away wouldn't it?

50C1AL0N3 · Jul 23, 2018

benhur said:

But if you acted as if you had a"knew heart" you would come off being high minded claiming you already knew of or about this or that. That would turn people away wouldn't it?

star · Jul 23, 2018

The gift of salvation is not only for eternal salvation but it as well is for living an abundant life on earth

dcontroversal · Jul 23, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

Of course Salvation can not be earned.

We are helpless and in bondage to the sin that dwells in our carnal nature, with Satan as our lord and master, as a sinner; unbeliever.

It is through God's great mercy and love for us that He calls us to repent; to turn to Him, by turning away from Satan as out lord.

Here is the Gospel message that Jesus Himself taught to Paul on the road to Damascus -

to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins

16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20

Here is the Gospel message that Paul tells king Agrippa that he proclaims -

but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

If we turn away from Satan as lord, by confessing Jesus as Lord, then as our Lord, we are to obey Him, if we believe the Gopel.

Could you tell us in your own words, why a born again Christian who is empowered by the Spirit of God, would want to disobey God, in which they show hatred toward God by not obeying His commandments?

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

His Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, empowers us to walk in the truth, and obey the truth, and speak the truth, which is loving God and loving our neighbor.

His word, His message, His doctrine is about love: Loving God, and loving His children.

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. John 14:23

If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;

He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
John 14:23

He who does not love Me does not keep My words

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5

If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20

JPT

All the false interpretation and drivel above does not, nor will not ever change the fact that a gift is given freely and never earned...exactly why your stance is false with no power to save anyone....Cainology and a false gospel.....

dcontroversal · Jul 23, 2018

star said:

Amen and a gift is exactly that...a gift....and a gift CANNOT BE EARNED OR MAINTAINED....ETERNAL MEANS ETERNAL......!!

dcontroversal · Jul 23, 2018

BillG said:

These workers for and Cainologists sow more confusion than a meeting of parliment or our congress.....and their drivel saves no one or has no power to save a flea,.much less a man.....!!

TruthTalk · Jul 23, 2018

preston39 said:

Yes I know you believe that a true believer can lose their eternal salvation, I do not so lets leave it at that.

Romans8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

1John2:18
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

50C1AL0N3 · Jul 23, 2018

Have a friend who is a drug addict but gets very upset when someone tells him he can't love or be a child of God if he continues to use drugs, but he has cried at this and swears he doesn't want to be an addict and he truly loves and believes in Christ.
What do you make of this (anyone)?

50C1AL0N3 · Jul 23, 2018

Boy, I've seen from my judging eyes good holy mature acting Christians, and questionable ones, in my fleshly judgement.
Good thing God sees the heart.
I've seen upstanding church members do henious acts and I've seen steet life non church attending believers do loving outstanding acts of kindness.
Judging a tree by the fruit is not a short term judgement as far as I can tell.

dcontroversal · Jul 23, 2018

50C1AL0N3 said:

Believers of every level of maturity have their difficulties, trials, short comings etc....EVEN DANIEL confessed sins and Jesus said if it is possible let this cup pass from me......Paul-->The things I say I am not going to do I do and the things I say I am going to do I do not.......we all struggle with those sins of the flesh that beset us in some form or fashion....only the deceived say they are sinless or without sin.....IF We sat that WE have no sin WE are deceived and the truth is not in us!

TruthTalk · Jul 23, 2018

50C1AL0N3 said:

Putting Jesus our Savior at the center of our life and all that we think, say or do, is where a sober life begins.

In my family the only thing that worked (often) is Christian Rehab; step one; it will take your friend out of the drug environment that they are now in. And of course most important is prayer and the loving support of their friends and family.

Most recently a family member celebrated their first year of being clean and sober and is now a born again Christian praise God! they could not leave rehab for 1yr or else they would lose the privilege of being in rehab.

God bless

TruthTalk · Jul 23, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Yes and the "Cainologist" or "Workers", left out half of the gospel, that salvation is the "gift of God" you cannot merit God's gift otherwise it would no longer be a gift but something that you work for. And half of a gospel is no gospel at all.

Quote by: Charles Spurgeon
"The greatest enemy to human souls is the self-righteous spirit which makes men look to themselves for salvation.".

Seohce · Jul 23, 2018

dcontroversal said:

20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! 22Woe untothem that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: 23which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff,so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you HYPOCRITES, as it is written,
This people honoureth me with their lips,
But their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
TEACHING FOR DOCTRKNES THE CKMMANDMDNÞS OF MEN.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well YE REJECT the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:11but ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It isCorban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and MANY SUCH LIKE THINGS DO YE

1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art DEAD. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee

11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and ARISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ shall give thee light.

11And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: FOR NOW IS OUR SALVATION NEARER THAN WHEN WE BELIEVED.

justpassinthrough · Jul 23, 2018

dcontroversal said:

At least we now understand that you hate the truth and consider the scriptures as “drivel”.

This explains a lot.

JPT

preston39 · Jul 23, 2018

50C1AL0N3 said:

5...,

I doubt that he is using prayer to it's fullest benefit If his heart is properly prepared and He stays with G-d inprayer for help he can be successful.
A tip....psych's use; ....tell him to never say..."I will never do a drug again"...that drives that little addiction enter in our mind nuts. Say I am not going to do a drug today...maybe tomorrow. Repeat as much as needed. He needs time away from drugs and that is the assignment to gain the time.
Just some thoughts.

Seohce · Jul 23, 2018

dcontroversal said:

TruthTalk said:

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)

NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?

Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.

ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?

DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)

Seohce · Jul 23, 2018

WERE YOU SENT BY GOD?

Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. FOR OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF HIS HEART , HIS MOUTH SPEAKS..

WHO ARE CLAIMING TO BE “STILL SINNERS” OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF THEIR HEART???

John 3:34 For the one whom GOD HAS SENT speaks the words of God,

for God gives the Spirit without limit.

This thread and it’s author implies that there’s no need for works to a FAITH ALONE that SAVES(faith void of works).

SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS IF IT’S APART FROM FAITH (eph 2:8-9) JUST AS FAITH ALONE APART FROM WORKS OF LOVE,OBEDIENCE AND FAITH IS DEAD (james 2:14-26)

IF WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE (eph 5:23) AREN’T WE EXPECTED TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS (john 14:12-15)AND DO HIS WORKS OF SALVATION (1cor 3:9, 12:28 mat 25:21-30, 9:37-38 eph 4:12-13, rom 12: 3-8, 1 tim 4:16) AS WE ARE TO DO HIS WILL HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN (mat 6:10)

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO FINISH HIS WORK. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I SENT YOU to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”

John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and WHICH I AM DOING, TESTIFIES that the Father has SENT me.

John 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who SENT me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM, SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, WE MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

John 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have SENT THEM into the world.

John 20:21-22 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I AM SENDING YOU.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

ONE SURE WAY TO RECOGNIZE THOSE WHO WERE NOT SENT ACCORDING TO THE VERSES ABOVE IS TO KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

DO THEY PREACH AGAINST THE WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO BY SAYING THAT: “FAITH ALONE SAVES AND IT IS VOID OF WORKS.”?

DO THEY PREACH THAT; “WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS.”?

THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDMENTS CANNOT SAVE EVEN THOSE BELIEVERS WHO CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTHS THAT JESUS IS LORD AND BELIEVE IN THEIR HEARTS THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

DO THEY PREACH THAT SINCE THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE SAVED REGARDLESS OF THEIR WILLFUL AND CONTINUOUS SINNING(manifested by their arguments against those who push for continuous faith and are against willful sinning).

DO THEY PROMOTE SIN BY SAYING THAT THOSE WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT THOSE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT IS A NEW CREATION AND THEREFORE MUST NOT SIN OR CEASE FROM SINNING, ARE LIARS ACCDG. TO 1JOHN 1:8 WHICH THEY LOVE TO QUOTE BUT REJECTING THE WHOLE TRUTH EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE? WHICH ONLY PROVES THIS VERSES BELOW TO BE TRUE:

Romans 8:5-9 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, HE DOES NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.

WOULD THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESIRE SIN?

Galatians 2:17-18 “If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are SINNERS, does that mean that Christ PROMOTES SIN? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

Romans 6:15 What then? SHALL WE SIN because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT.

John 16:13 But when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11,15-20 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT .MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:21-23 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ASHAMED OF? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been SET FREE FROM SIN and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to HOLINESS, and the result is ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also APPROVE of those who practice them.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of THEIR FOLLOWERS, who APPROVE their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

THEREFORE:

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? AND HOW CAN THEY PREACH UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Not By Works

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