Calvinism vs. Arminianism?
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How convenient that you only posted the definition that fits your view.
So? You can find sources and commentaries supporting almost any view, thereby refuting others.
(they aren't all correct..)
OS, do you believe Christ died for all, or only those whom God predetermined He would save? Are you a Calvinist?
So? You can find sources and commentaries supporting almost any view, thereby refuting others.
(they aren't all correct..)
OS, do you believe Christ died for all, or only those whom God predetermined He would save? Are you a Calvinist?
The Bible says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and there is none that does good, no, not one, and what makes you to differ from another person, and if a person thinks they are something when they are nothing they deceive themselves, and if you offend in the least of the law you have broken all the law, for you still broke the law.
So it appears as if God says everybody is on the same level, and none better than another person.
So why would God choose who will be saved, and who will not be saved without their choice.
God's nature is love, and He loves the people He created, and He is not evil, which blasphemy against the Spirit is attributing something evil to God when He is good.
If God chooses who will be saved without their choice then how is God's kingdom true love, for the people that He chose would only accept the truth because they have no choice but to accept the truth seeing no other alternative, and that is not true love, which would mean people would have greater love towards each other than God and His saints.
That would mean that their belief in God is not real, and their confessing Christ is not real, and their faith is not real, and their love is not real, and their hope is not real, because it did not come from them but from God.
God is not evil that He would condemn people that do not have a choice in the matter, for why would they be punished when they have no choice but to reject the truth seeing no other alternative.
Also the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, and that is because we are born innocent with no sin on our record, so if we do not have any sin on our record when we are born, then how did God choose who will be saved, and not saved without their choice, when everybody is born innocent, for if God chooses who will not be saved, then they would not be innocent when they are born.
Add to the fact that God said that He commands all people to repent, which why is He commanding all people to repent if some were chosen to not be saved, and said He wants all people to repent, and come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved, and the Spirit and bride say Come, and anybody can have that salvation, and Jesus lights every person born in this world so everybody can see the light of Jesus and be saved, and the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but all come to the truth and be saved, and anybody that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Why would they go against God saying He wants all people to be saved, and no one perish.
The Bible says many are called but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth, and if they still insist that God chooses who will be saved and not saved without their choice, then God would only work in the lives of the people that He choose to be saved, for it would not make a difference to work in the lives of the people that He did not choose.
And if God is only working in the lives of the people He chose to be saved then why is He calling people on earth that cannot be chosen, for many are called but few are chosen.
God chose us we did not choose Him.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them, and no person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
When God calls us He will work in our lives to get us to the truth, but when we get to the door of truth then we have to choose to walk through the door, for His kingdom is love, but we would of not gotten to the door of truth if God did not intervene in our lives to get us there.
And that door of truth is to realize that sins separate us from God, and affects our relationship with God, and that God hates sin, and we should hate sin, and not want to do it being led of the Spirit.
Which some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and do not walk through the door of truth.
But how can they fall short if God chooses who will be saved, and not saved without their choice, for they confessed Jesus as the Lord, which they can only do by the Holy Ghost, and they had a form of godliness that they were living somewhat for God, so if the Spirit was working in their lives how did they fall short when God would only work in the lives He chose to be saved without their choice.
Because many are called but few are chosen, and God does the calling and choosing on earth, and they confessed Jesus as the Lord, and had a from of godliness, but it points out their sins they were holding unto which Jesus said not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will enter heaven because they were workers of iniquity.
Which the Bible says the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, and is how the saints are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Calvinism does not have that strictness concerning sin, but is relaxed concerning sin, and causes many people to hold unto sin and think they are right with God, and also to enjoy their wants, money, and material things, which Paul said if they do believe God blesses them with their wants withdraw yourself from them, and Paul said if does not have charity then he is nothing, and James said their faith is dead, and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
So it appears as if God says everybody is on the same level, and none better than another person.
So why would God choose who will be saved, and who will not be saved without their choice.
God's nature is love, and He loves the people He created, and He is not evil, which blasphemy against the Spirit is attributing something evil to God when He is good.
If God chooses who will be saved without their choice then how is God's kingdom true love, for the people that He chose would only accept the truth because they have no choice but to accept the truth seeing no other alternative, and that is not true love, which would mean people would have greater love towards each other than God and His saints.
That would mean that their belief in God is not real, and their confessing Christ is not real, and their faith is not real, and their love is not real, and their hope is not real, because it did not come from them but from God.
God is not evil that He would condemn people that do not have a choice in the matter, for why would they be punished when they have no choice but to reject the truth seeing no other alternative.
Also the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, and that is because we are born innocent with no sin on our record, so if we do not have any sin on our record when we are born, then how did God choose who will be saved, and not saved without their choice, when everybody is born innocent, for if God chooses who will not be saved, then they would not be innocent when they are born.
Add to the fact that God said that He commands all people to repent, which why is He commanding all people to repent if some were chosen to not be saved, and said He wants all people to repent, and come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved, and the Spirit and bride say Come, and anybody can have that salvation, and Jesus lights every person born in this world so everybody can see the light of Jesus and be saved, and the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but all come to the truth and be saved, and anybody that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Why would they go against God saying He wants all people to be saved, and no one perish.
The Bible says many are called but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth, and if they still insist that God chooses who will be saved and not saved without their choice, then God would only work in the lives of the people that He choose to be saved, for it would not make a difference to work in the lives of the people that He did not choose.
And if God is only working in the lives of the people He chose to be saved then why is He calling people on earth that cannot be chosen, for many are called but few are chosen.
God chose us we did not choose Him.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them, and no person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
When God calls us He will work in our lives to get us to the truth, but when we get to the door of truth then we have to choose to walk through the door, for His kingdom is love, but we would of not gotten to the door of truth if God did not intervene in our lives to get us there.
And that door of truth is to realize that sins separate us from God, and affects our relationship with God, and that God hates sin, and we should hate sin, and not want to do it being led of the Spirit.
Which some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and do not walk through the door of truth.
But how can they fall short if God chooses who will be saved, and not saved without their choice, for they confessed Jesus as the Lord, which they can only do by the Holy Ghost, and they had a form of godliness that they were living somewhat for God, so if the Spirit was working in their lives how did they fall short when God would only work in the lives He chose to be saved without their choice.
Because many are called but few are chosen, and God does the calling and choosing on earth, and they confessed Jesus as the Lord, and had a from of godliness, but it points out their sins they were holding unto which Jesus said not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will enter heaven because they were workers of iniquity.
Which the Bible says the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, and is how the saints are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Calvinism does not have that strictness concerning sin, but is relaxed concerning sin, and causes many people to hold unto sin and think they are right with God, and also to enjoy their wants, money, and material things, which Paul said if they do believe God blesses them with their wants withdraw yourself from them, and Paul said if does not have charity then he is nothing, and James said their faith is dead, and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
How unfortunate you obscure the truth of what I said with your preference for sarcasm.
You were wrong in your earlier statement concerning Kosmos. Do you have issues with being proven wrong?
(and writing in small text in text speak etiquette is taken to be the same as muttering under one's breath. We're all adults here. Speak up please.)
You were wrong in your earlier statement concerning Kosmos. Do you have issues with being proven wrong?
(and writing in small text in text speak etiquette is taken to be the same as muttering under one's breath. We're all adults here. Speak up please.)
Post from "salvation" thread: That's funny - the way I read it in Thayer's Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament - on page 357, Strong's #2889 - 5. the inhabitants of the world: 1 Cor. 5:9; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race: Matt. 13:38, 28:7; Mk. 14:9; John 1:10 & 29, 3:16, 6:33&51, 8:26, 12:47, 13:1, 14:31, 16:28, 17:6, 21, 23; Rom. 3:6, 19; 1 Cor. 1:27, 4:13, 5:10, 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:19 and James 2:5.
World
World
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 2889Original WordWord Origin
kosmoßprobably from the base of (2865)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Kosmos3:868,459
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
kos'-mosNoun Masculine
Definition
NAS Word Usage - Total: 186
adornment 1, world 184, world's 1
World
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 2889Original WordWord Origin
kosmoßprobably from the base of (2865)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Kosmos3:868,459
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
kos'-mosNoun Masculine
Definition
- an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
- ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
- the world, the universe
- the circle of the earth, the earth
- the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
- the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
- world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
- the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
- any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
- the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
- of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
NAS Word Usage - Total: 186
adornment 1, world 184, world's 1
This is not true! I was never exposed to Calvinism, and I spent 36 years being a default Arminian, because I really didn't understand Calvinism, even though I studied it in seminary.
But, I did NOT make a choice to follow Jesus. Jesus chose me! So, all these "making decisions for Christ" types of things and discussions on free will made no sense. I was terrified of being branded a "heretic" if I said, "NO! We do not chose Christ, he chooses us!" because I did not have the knowledge and understanding of how to defend this position scripturally.
I was so delighted when a bunch of people, both new and old started addressing the Bible issues, my mind was totally changed! Now what did they say?
God allows us a certain area we can move in. So, before we are saved, we can do good things, but we are spiritually dead. We have NO ability to choose Christ. The free will we have is within the constraints God has placed us under.
Then, God saves us. I really don't care if it was God reaching down and telling me he is the Saviour of the world, delivering me instantly and totally from alcohol, or someone attending an evangelist meeting, and saying a sinner's prayer. The sinner's prayer can be meaningful, if God saved you at that point. But, as I found out helping the follow-up for a Billy Graham Crusade in 1984, that almost no one follows through on those sinners' prayers, because they were not saved by God because he did not call them, they were cohereced, or went out of curiosity, and got emotional at the altar call. That is not salvation, that is emotion.
So no free will at all, when it comes to salvation. God calls you and saves you or you are not saved. Of course we can make decisions about areas of our lives, no one denies that. But, I believe that the God who saved us, also keeps a hedge around us so that we do not wander too far!
Is God is in control or not? That's is what this discussion of soteriology is really about. Is God in control of your life? Because if he is not, he is either giving you a lot of rope, for reasons of his own, or you just aren't saved! One thing the Bible is so clear on is the Sovereignty of God! He is in control of everything, regardless of what we think!
PS I am not saying people here are not saved, if they are Arminians. They are all my brothers and sisters in Christ. And I do hope I did some justice to the simple explanation that helped me change from a mixed up Arminian, to a solid Reformed person. Yes, Nehemiah, right here in this forum! I changed!
But, I did NOT make a choice to follow Jesus. Jesus chose me! So, all these "making decisions for Christ" types of things and discussions on free will made no sense. I was terrified of being branded a "heretic" if I said, "NO! We do not chose Christ, he chooses us!" because I did not have the knowledge and understanding of how to defend this position scripturally.
I was so delighted when a bunch of people, both new and old started addressing the Bible issues, my mind was totally changed! Now what did they say?
God allows us a certain area we can move in. So, before we are saved, we can do good things, but we are spiritually dead. We have NO ability to choose Christ. The free will we have is within the constraints God has placed us under.
Then, God saves us. I really don't care if it was God reaching down and telling me he is the Saviour of the world, delivering me instantly and totally from alcohol, or someone attending an evangelist meeting, and saying a sinner's prayer. The sinner's prayer can be meaningful, if God saved you at that point. But, as I found out helping the follow-up for a Billy Graham Crusade in 1984, that almost no one follows through on those sinners' prayers, because they were not saved by God because he did not call them, they were cohereced, or went out of curiosity, and got emotional at the altar call. That is not salvation, that is emotion.
So no free will at all, when it comes to salvation. God calls you and saves you or you are not saved. Of course we can make decisions about areas of our lives, no one denies that. But, I believe that the God who saved us, also keeps a hedge around us so that we do not wander too far!
Is God is in control or not? That's is what this discussion of soteriology is really about. Is God in control of your life? Because if he is not, he is either giving you a lot of rope, for reasons of his own, or you just aren't saved! One thing the Bible is so clear on is the Sovereignty of God! He is in control of everything, regardless of what we think!
PS I am not saying people here are not saved, if they are Arminians. They are all my brothers and sisters in Christ. And I do hope I did some justice to the simple explanation that helped me change from a mixed up Arminian, to a solid Reformed person. Yes, Nehemiah, right here in this forum! I changed!
Sure. I think people sometimes place to much emphasis on teachers of the bible rather than spending more time in the bible itself. This realization and the rebelion it lead me to was a major enlightenment. Everything we need to know is between; "In the beginning"and "Amen". There is no other valid way to go. Luther, Calvin, A Pope it's all just opinion and most/all make mistakes so just take them with a few grains of salt. Clear enough? You will never know for sure which is correct and which is not, till Jesus returns and tells us.
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