Not By Works
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I have found that most people want a Savior to bail them out when they get in Trouble.
I have also found that FEW people Want a LORD who will rule over their Lives.
They prefer to be lord of their own lives.
Do I think they are Saved ? ? ? NO, they have never been BORN AGAIN.
When does JESUS become your SAVIOR?
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
9 that if you confess {not just Profess} with your mouth Jesus as Lord {you have to receive HIM as LORD of your LIFE, before HE becomes your SAVIOR}, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
John 1:12-13 (NASB)
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,
That is how I have presented the Plan of Salvation ever since the early 80's. I think that should answer your questions too.
I have also found that FEW people Want a LORD who will rule over their Lives.
They prefer to be lord of their own lives.
Do I think they are Saved ? ? ? NO, they have never been BORN AGAIN.
When does JESUS become your SAVIOR?
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
9 that if you confess {not just Profess} with your mouth Jesus as Lord {you have to receive HIM as LORD of your LIFE, before HE becomes your SAVIOR}, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
John 1:12-13 (NASB)
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,
That is how I have presented the Plan of Salvation ever since the early 80's. I think that should answer your questions too.
John 5 is Jesus talking to Jews that were wanting to kill him because he had healed a man on the Sabbath and had made himself equal with God.
In the KJV the word is that they who believe on his words shall not come into condemnation.
In Romans 8:1, Paul uses these same words and says that there is no condemnation, but he adds a couple of conditions.
1) you have to be in Christ Jesus. And then he describes what that means
2) you have to walk not after the flesh, but in the Spirit.
The gest is, that if you are in Christ, and you are walking in the spirit, you will have no condemnation or judgement. If you don't walk in the spirit and be in Christ, it doesn't matter how much you believe or not.
Also in Matthew 19:16-22, Jesus tell a young man that in order to have EL you must keep the commandments, and lists them.
Later in John 5, Jesus talks about the dead rising and says that those dead that have done good will rise unto life, but those who have done evil will rise unto damnation.
Finally Jesus gives us a hint of the sign of good works, when he says that the works he does is a sign that he was sent by his Father.
The same attaches to us, good works is a sign that we are saved.
So good chapter, and when you read all of it, you get a better feeling for the process of being saved. Belief is the beginning, then through faith you keep his commandments and you love your neighbor as yourself. I think those on this forum are doing those things. So keep up the good work and it will be well for us.
In the KJV the word is that they who believe on his words shall not come into condemnation.
In Romans 8:1, Paul uses these same words and says that there is no condemnation, but he adds a couple of conditions.
1) you have to be in Christ Jesus. And then he describes what that means
2) you have to walk not after the flesh, but in the Spirit.
The gest is, that if you are in Christ, and you are walking in the spirit, you will have no condemnation or judgement. If you don't walk in the spirit and be in Christ, it doesn't matter how much you believe or not.
Also in Matthew 19:16-22, Jesus tell a young man that in order to have EL you must keep the commandments, and lists them.
Later in John 5, Jesus talks about the dead rising and says that those dead that have done good will rise unto life, but those who have done evil will rise unto damnation.
Finally Jesus gives us a hint of the sign of good works, when he says that the works he does is a sign that he was sent by his Father.
The same attaches to us, good works is a sign that we are saved.
So good chapter, and when you read all of it, you get a better feeling for the process of being saved. Belief is the beginning, then through faith you keep his commandments and you love your neighbor as yourself. I think those on this forum are doing those things. So keep up the good work and it will be well for us.
WHO IS THE LORD AND WHO ARE THE SERVANTS? (luke 6:46)
DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THE LORD ALMIGHTY TO BE THE SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS?
OR WOULD YOU RATHER WANT TO MAKE THE SERVANT TO BE THE LORD OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY?
Luke 6 : 46
46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
Malachi 3 : 13-18
13 "You have said harsh things against me," says the LORD. "Yet you ask, 'What have we said against you?'
14 "You have said, 'It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the LORD Almighty?
15 But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.'"
16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name.
17 "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him.
18 AND YOU WILL AGAIN SEE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN the righteous and the wicked, between THOSE WHO SERVE GOD AND THOSE WHO DO NOT.
DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THE LORD ALMIGHTY TO BE THE SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS?
OR WOULD YOU RATHER WANT TO MAKE THE SERVANT TO BE THE LORD OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY?
Luke 6 : 46
46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
Malachi 3 : 13-18
13 "You have said harsh things against me," says the LORD. "Yet you ask, 'What have we said against you?'
14 "You have said, 'It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the LORD Almighty?
15 But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.'"
16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name.
17 "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him.
18 AND YOU WILL AGAIN SEE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN the righteous and the wicked, between THOSE WHO SERVE GOD AND THOSE WHO DO NOT.
We serve, BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM. LOVING HIM comes AUTOMATICALLY when one is Born Again.
Here is how HE did it.
John 3:36 (HCSB)
36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
Matthew 13:47-51 (HCSB)
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a large net thrown into the sea. It collected every kind ⌊of fish⌋,
48 and when it was full, they dragged it ashore, sat down, and gathered the good ⌊fish⌋ into containers, but threw out the worthless ones.
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will go out, separate the evil people from the righteous,
50 and throw them into the blazing furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
51 “Have you understood all these things?” “Yes,” they told Him.
Matthew 13:37-43 (HCSB)
37 He replied: “The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;
38 the field is the world; and the good seed—these are the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 Therefore, just as the weeds are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather from His kingdom everything that causes sin and those guilty of lawlessness.
42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s kingdom. Anyone who has ears should listen!
Matthew 25:31-46 (HCSB)
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’
40 “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
41 Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
44 “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
45 “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:1-13 (HCSB)
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible.
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn’t take olive oil with them.
4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps.
5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “In the middle of the night there was a shout: ‘Here’s the groom! Come out to meet him.’
7 “Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps.
8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 “The sensible ones answered, ‘No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
10 “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
11 “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’
13 “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour.
Matthew 7:13-28 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn’t collapse, because its foundation was on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn’t act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!”
28 When Jesus had finished this sermon, the crowds were astonished at His teaching,
So what you are saying, is you have a better plan than our LORD's ? ? ?
Here is how HE did it.
John 3:36 (HCSB)
36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
Matthew 13:47-51 (HCSB)
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a large net thrown into the sea. It collected every kind ⌊of fish⌋,
48 and when it was full, they dragged it ashore, sat down, and gathered the good ⌊fish⌋ into containers, but threw out the worthless ones.
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will go out, separate the evil people from the righteous,
50 and throw them into the blazing furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
51 “Have you understood all these things?” “Yes,” they told Him.
Matthew 13:37-43 (HCSB)
37 He replied: “The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;
38 the field is the world; and the good seed—these are the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 Therefore, just as the weeds are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather from His kingdom everything that causes sin and those guilty of lawlessness.
42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s kingdom. Anyone who has ears should listen!
Matthew 25:31-46 (HCSB)
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’
40 “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
41 Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
44 “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
45 “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:1-13 (HCSB)
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible.
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn’t take olive oil with them.
4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps.
5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “In the middle of the night there was a shout: ‘Here’s the groom! Come out to meet him.’
7 “Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps.
8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 “The sensible ones answered, ‘No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
10 “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
11 “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’
13 “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour.
Matthew 7:13-28 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn’t collapse, because its foundation was on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn’t act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!”
28 When Jesus had finished this sermon, the crowds were astonished at His teaching,
So what you are saying, is you have a better plan than our LORD's ? ? ?
Alls I know (whether right or wron or in line with scripture) is that whe I try with effort to perfect the things like "love your enemies, do good to those who persecute you...etc" I find it to feel "fake" I guess I could say, and inadequate, but when the Spirit gives me revelation and the power to do so is when I "know" somehow but not in my mind, that it is a work granted and completed in the love of God.
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When you try with effort, do you not pray that the spirit will be with you to give you revelation and power to succeed in you endeavor?
It is obvious that you can tell the difference between an effort that is generated not from the spirit but of yourself. So why not always give effort that is generated by the spirit?
It is obvious that you can tell the difference between an effort that is generated not from the spirit but of yourself. So why not always give effort that is generated by the spirit?
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I have never said that grace causes a man to sin, that would be another oxymoron. What I have said is that preachers and pastors often for the sake of building up their congregations will make it seem that you can do anything you want because you are under the freedom of grace.
Vulnerable people can take the words like "it is by grace that you are saved, not of your own works" and come away with a false security that because they are saved, and live under the freedom of grace, they may sin as they want and Jesus will be there to clean up the mess and with open arms welcome them into his Kingdom at the end. It does not happen that way.
Vulnerable people can take the words like "it is by grace that you are saved, not of your own works" and come away with a false security that because they are saved, and live under the freedom of grace, they may sin as they want and Jesus will be there to clean up the mess and with open arms welcome them into his Kingdom at the end. It does not happen that way.
I am sure you have read all of 2 john 1?
John uses the word beseech, when he says, I beseech you to love one another (2 John 1:5).
In 2 john 1:6, John tells them what love is. It is keeping the commandments that Christ had given them to live.
Why does he use the word beseech? Because he is begging them urgently to love one another. Why must he beg?
Because any body that transgresses from this doctrine has not God in them and does not abide in Christ. (2 John 1:9)
And then John tells them that any man come to you with another doctrine, receive him not. (2 John 1:10)
So after reading the whole chapter and putting vs 2 in context. This is what I come away with: love one another by keeping the commandments of God and if you do this, the truth will be in you forever, and you will be saved. Turn from this doctrine or receive any body that preaches another doctrine, then you transgress this doctrine and you will not abide in Christ and you will not have God with you, and you will lose the truth that is in you.
The word "FOREVER" is therefore conditional upon your loving one another and keeping the commandments as given by Christ.
John uses the word beseech, when he says, I beseech you to love one another (2 John 1:5).
In 2 john 1:6, John tells them what love is. It is keeping the commandments that Christ had given them to live.
Why does he use the word beseech? Because he is begging them urgently to love one another. Why must he beg?
Because any body that transgresses from this doctrine has not God in them and does not abide in Christ. (2 John 1:9)
And then John tells them that any man come to you with another doctrine, receive him not. (2 John 1:10)
So after reading the whole chapter and putting vs 2 in context. This is what I come away with: love one another by keeping the commandments of God and if you do this, the truth will be in you forever, and you will be saved. Turn from this doctrine or receive any body that preaches another doctrine, then you transgress this doctrine and you will not abide in Christ and you will not have God with you, and you will lose the truth that is in you.
The word "FOREVER" is therefore conditional upon your loving one another and keeping the commandments as given by Christ.
Romans 8:31-39
God’s Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
God’s Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.