Christ is God

[Zmouth]

we know from scripture that Yeshua had the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT living inside Him.

Our Father in heaven is the Holy Ghost, the only begotten of the eternal God.

"...she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

"...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:20

Considering it is written,
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.Gen 2:24
and the testimony of Jesus,
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. John 5:19
then how would the male know that man shall leave his father and mother? Plus;
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, Matt 19:4

this is Colossians 1:15 [Yeshua is the VISIBLE IMAGE to the INVISIBLE GOD] explained.

The scriptures don't infer visible image, but the image of of the invisible God, thus the Holy Ghost
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: C ol 1:15

Peter and Paul understood that Yeshua was the VISIBLE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD Yahweh they grew up believing in!!

this is why Yeshua claimed He was "I AM!!"

Was Jesus claiming he was 'I AM' or was he saying that before Abraham was 'I AM'.

And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Ex 3:13-14

 

[OstrichSmiling]

[HR][/HR]~—•—○— CHALLENGE —○—•—~
[HR][/HR]
​

Show from scripture that Jesus the Messiah is God.

[HR][/HR]

i'll go first:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.​

(John 1:1-5) ​

​

The Christ is that Word, who pitched His tent with us, came to His own, but wasn't known by them, who loved me, and gave Himself! He is the Light and the Resurrection and the Life!


[HR][/HR]

OK, your turn! Go!!

Of course Yeshua Jesus was God. Matthew 1:23 , Isaiah 7:14

 

[GodisONE]

Our Father in heaven is the Holy Ghost, the only begotten of the eternal God.

"...she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

"...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:20

it's good to have better versions than that of King James to find a clearer meaning. and why I personally refer to tough scriptures from the Jewish translations [CJB]

Luke 1:35
The angel answered her, "The Ruach HaKodesh [this is the HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT] will come over you, (((((the power of Ha`Elyon))))) [this is the power of Yahweh] will cover you. Therefore the holy child born to you will be called the Son of God [Son of Yahweh, not Son of the Holy Ghost/Spirit].

and the testimony of Jesus,

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. John 5:19

this proves John 14 the FATHER lives inside Me and is doing the works and saying what He wants...not Yeshua

then how would the male know that man shall leave his father and mother? Plus;

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, Matt 19:4

this verse is beautiful!!
1. it is right from the mouth of GOD, and explains Genesis creation that Elohim [to Jews means singular, not many] was (((((HE))))) which made them [clearly the "LET US" make man is another Catholic add on to push the trinity!!]

The scriptures don't infer visible image, but the image of of the invisible God, thus the Holy Ghost

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: C ol 1:15

the IMAGE of Ha`Elyon [Yahweh], not the Holy Spirit [ Ruach HaKodesh]

Was Jesus claiming he was 'I AM' or was he saying that before Abraham was 'I AM'.

And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Ex 3:13-14

AWESOME scripture reference. and I AM THAT I AM refers to what will be = Yeshua was confirming He was what was to be/God!!

 

[Placid]

Hi Nehemiah,

Quote from post 287, page 15
So you think that an unbelieving Jew -- Philo -- has more credibility about the deity of Christ than the apostles and Christians?
THE WORD = LOGOS = THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD = GOD THE SON = JESUS
In the beginning was the Word (Logos)---> Jesus is the eternal Son of God
and the Word was with God---> Jesus was always with God the Father
and the Word was God ---> Jesus was and is GOD (THEOS)

Response: ---
We can understand that the Word, and the Logos (being ‘uncreated,’ but the all-knowing, power, and wisdom of God), are synonymous. --- also, the Word was the only begotten Son of God. This is borne out in the Greek terms for God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Theov), and the Word was God (Theos).
John 1:18 No one has seen God (Theov) at any time. The only begotten God (Theos) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

--- Notice two things, --- The Word was ‘begotten of God’ and called both God (Theos), and ‘the begotten Son of God,’ so it is a ‘unique’ position that no one else can ever attain unto.
--- The second thing to notice is that God (Theov) is identified as ‘Father,’ so not only the Father of the Word, who is in His bosom, or in ‘the closest relationship with Him.’ --- But the Eternal Father. --- So when we say, ‘out Father in heaven,’ we are speaking of “The First Cause.” --- The Father of all.

So the ‘Three in heaven are, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.’

 

[GodisONE]

Hi Nehemiah,

Quote from post 287, page 15
So you think that an unbelieving Jew -- Philo -- has more credibility about the deity of Christ than the apostles and Christians?
THE WORD = LOGOS = THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD = GOD THE SON = JESUS
In the beginning was the Word (Logos)---> Jesus is the eternal Son of God
and the Word was with God---> Jesus was always with God the Father
and the Word was God ---> Jesus was and is GOD (THEOS)

Response: ---
We can understand that the Word, and the Logos (being ‘uncreated,’ but the all-knowing, power, and wisdom of God), are synonymous. --- also, the Word was the only begotten Son of God. This is borne out in the Greek terms for God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Theov), and the Word was God (Theos).
John 1:18 No one has seen God (Theov) at any time. The only begotten God (Theos) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

--- Notice two things, --- The Word was ‘begotten of God’ and called both God (Theos), and ‘the begotten Son of God,’ so it is a ‘unique’ position that no one else can ever attain unto.
--- The second thing to notice is that God (Theov) is identified as ‘Father,’ so not only the Father of the Word, who is in His bosom, or in ‘the closest relationship with Him.’ --- But the Eternal Father. --- So when we say, ‘out Father in heaven,’ we are speaking of “The First Cause.” --- The Father of all.

So the ‘Three in heaven are, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.’

so glad there are clearer biblical versions than that of the Catholic King James who obviously bastardized the Holy Scripture


6 He is the one who came by means of water and blood, Yeshua the Messiah - not with water only, but with the water and the blood. And the Spirit bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
7 There are three witnesses -
8 the Spirit, the water and the blood - and these three are in agreement.

 

[notuptome]

so glad there are clearer biblical versions than that of the Catholic King James who obviously bastardized the Holy Scripture


6 He is the one who came by means of water and blood, Yeshua the Messiah - not with water only, but with the water and the blood. And the Spirit bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
7 There are three witnesses -
8 the Spirit, the water and the blood - and these three are in agreement.

And yet verse 7 has no manuscript authority?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[GodisONE]

And yet verse 7 has no manuscript authority?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

it's my belief, the Jews who translated the Greek, understood from the writings that the trinity was a clear add in [like Matthew 28:19]. therefore, it's only ONE in heaven, and the THREE witnesses pertain only to the Messiah!!

 

[GodisONE]

Our Father in heaven is the Holy Ghost, the only begotten of the eternal God.

"...she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

"...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:20

Considering it is written,
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.Gen 2:24
and the testimony of Jesus,
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. John 5:19
then how would the male know that man shall leave his father and mother? Plus;
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, Matt 19:4



The scriptures don't infer visible image, but the image of of the invisible God, thus the Holy Ghost
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: C ol 1:15



Was Jesus claiming he was 'I AM' or was he saying that before Abraham was 'I AM'.

And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Ex 3:13-14

I do like this view point. I am not sure about the holy Spirit though being God. reason is we have a scripture that is from God speaking about the Holy Spirit being His personal Spirit, not a separate entity like the trinity view.

3 ADONAI said, "My Spirit will not live in human beings forever, for they too are flesh; therefore their life span is to be 120 years."
this is rather clear God discussing His Spirit [capital S = Holy Spirit]!!

 

[trofimus]

Noose, how do you read this verse, according to your belief? And shortly, please.

The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet".

 

[Enoch987]

it's my belief, the Jews who translated the Greek, understood from the writings that the trinity was a clear add in [like Matthew 28:19]. therefore, it's only ONE in heaven, and the THREE witnesses pertain only to the Messiah!!

Do you know that the Hebrew word Echad allows for 2 to be one? I agree that Matt. 28:19 was an add in. We know that about 1 John 5:7 is for sure. Father, Son and Holy Spirit was added so we would see Spirit as a person unlike water, blood and Spirit.
Oneness believers and Trinitarians both have the Holy Spirit. Both are saved. God answers prayers for both.

1 Corinthians 2 compares the Spirit of God with the Spirit of man, the latter we know is not a separate person.
And that believers have the mind of Christ (which is the Spirit of God).
The pronoun 'he' referring to the Holy Spirit in John, may be an add on since the definite article for Spirit is neuter (not male or female) but it does no harm to believe in the Trinity.
Trinitarians believe they have the truth without which 'no one can be saved .'(Athanasian Creed) which leads to pride.
Salvation is believing in Jesus.

 

[trofimus]

Oneness believers and Trinitarians both have the Holy Spirit. Both are saved.

How do you know?

 

[Zmouth]

it's good to have better versions than that of King James to find a clearer meaning. and why I personally refer to tough scriptures from the Jewish translations [CJB]

CJB is not a translation, but an interpretation first published in 1998.

Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved

 

[Zmouth]

Our Father in heaven is the Holy Ghost, the only begotten of the eternal God.

"...she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

"...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:20

I do like this view point. I am not sure about the holy Spirit though being God. reason is we have a scripture that is from God speaking about the Holy Spirit being His personal Spirit, not a separate entity like the trinity view.

3 ADONAI said, "My Spirit will not live in human beings forever, for they too are flesh; therefore their life span is to be 120 years."
this is rather clear God discussing His Spirit [capital S = Holy Spirit]!!

"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? ...." Matt 12:34

So who is the Heavenly Father of vipers, or evil people? (the devil?)

Do you believe vipers can speak good things?

 

[GodisONE]

Do you know that the Hebrew word Echad allows for 2 to be one? I agree that Matt. 28:19 was an add in. We know that about 1 John 5:7 is for sure. Father, Son and Holy Spirit was added so we would see Spirit as a person unlike water, blood and Spirit.
Oneness believers and Trinitarians both have the Holy Spirit. Both are saved. God answers prayers for both.

1 Corinthians 2 compares the Spirit of God with the Spirit of man, the latter we know is not a separate person.
And that believers have the mind of Christ (which is the Spirit of God).
The pronoun 'he' referring to the Holy Spirit in John, may be an add on since the definite article for Spirit is neuter (not male or female) but it does no harm to believe in the Trinity.
Trinitarians believe they have the truth without which 'no one can be saved .'(Athanasian Creed) which leads to pride.
Salvation is believing in Jesus.

I am aware of that. in fact, the Messianic Jews who believe in Yeshua believe their is the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit is their spirit. they basically have it correct with exception that the Father is the Son and the Son is the Father. their reasoning behind it is the term "I AM THAT I AM" to them means TWO!!

 

[GodisONE]

"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? ...." Matt 12:34

So who is the Heavenly Father of vipers, or evil people? (the devil?)

Do you believe vipers can speak good things?

this is what Yeshua said to the Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes for equaling the Holy Ghost to the work of the Adversary.
that is not what I am doing. I am claiming the Holy Spirit is the personal Spirit of Yahweh. and even though the Holy Spirit reached in and planted the Holy Seed of Yeshua, that seed would be Yahweh's offspring, not the personal Spirit of Yahweh!!

 

[Noose]

Noose, how do you read this verse, according to your belief? And shortly, please.

The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet".

Again, God has no right or left positions, right hand of God means glory/victory through righteousness. When God came on earth to demonstrate sonship, He demonstrated it all the way until He was victorious over sin/death (right hand of God). And now that we are in the position of the son and He our Father, He would like us to be victorious over sin/death just like He was and thus He grants us the right to sit on His right hand.

Rev 3:20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

 

[Zmouth]

this is what Yeshua said to the Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes for equaling the Holy Ghost to the work of the Adversary.
that is not what I am doing.

I am not saying that is what you are doing, nor am I trying to play a game of gotcha seeing that you have already been gotched.

The scripture in Matthew 12:34 presents the question that Jesus asked of those being evil, if they can speak the truth, or rather good things. Jesus called those Jews which believed upon him as being of their father the devil when they questioned his teachings as written in John 8:31-32, "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." To which it is written they replied, "They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man:" In the 44th verse it is written that Jesus said they were of their father the devil.

The passage in Matthew 12 continues with the following; "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things." So does the evil man bring forth good things? The answer would be 'no' wouldn't it?

I am claiming the Holy Spirit is the personal Spirit of Yahweh. and even though the Holy Spirit reached in and planted the Holy Seed of Yeshua, that seed would be Yahweh's offspring, not the personal Spirit of Yahweh!!

So in John 8:44, he eventually says that they are of their father the devil, in whom was no truth. So in Luke 11:13 when Jesus says to them that are evil," If you being evil then, know how to give good gifts to your children" then they obviously don't know the Spirit of truth which tells us that the evil man brings forth evil things.

Since the LORD is a God of truth, then if you Father in heaven was the Spirit of truth, or Holy Ghost then so is it little wonder that their father the devil gives them the Holy Spirit seeing it is written in John 8:44, "because there is no truth in him"

 

[trofimus]

Again, God has no right or left positions, right hand of God means glory/victory through righteousness. When God came on earth to demonstrate sonship, He demonstrated it all the way until He was victorious over sin/death (right hand of God). And now that we are in the position of the son and He our Father, He would like us to be victorious over sin/death just like He was and thus He grants us the right to sit on His right hand.

Rev 3:20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

What does "Lord said to my Lord" mean and what does "I put your enemies under your feet" mean?

Concentrate on "I, your" and "Lord said to Lord", these are parts which I wonder how you read them. Because, taken literally, it again destroys your position. So you must read it in some different way. Which one?

I do not want your defense, just the information how you read it, simply and clearly, give me one sentence for each. For exaple, calvinists read "God loved the world" like "God loved the elect ones from the world". This is what i want from you to tell me, how you read the verse above.

 

[GodisONE]

I am not saying that is what you are doing, nor am I trying to play a game of gotcha seeing that you have already been gotched.

The scripture in Matthew 12:34 presents the question that Jesus asked of those being evil, if they can speak the truth, or rather good things. Jesus called those Jews which believed upon him as being of their father the devil when they questioned his teachings as written in John 8:31-32, "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." To which it is written they replied, "They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man:" In the 44th verse it is written that Jesus said they were of their father the devil.

The passage in Matthew 12 continues with the following; "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things." So does the evil man bring forth good things? The answer would be 'no' wouldn't it?



So in John 8:44, he eventually says that they are of their father the devil, in whom was no truth. So in Luke 11:13 when Jesus says to them that are evil," If you being evil then, know how to give good gifts to your children" then they obviously don't know the Spirit of truth which tells us that the evil man brings forth evil things.

Since the LORD is a God of truth, then if you Father in heaven was the Spirit of truth, or Holy Ghost then so is it little wonder that their father the devil gives them the Holy Spirit seeing it is written in John 8:44, "because there is no truth in him"

we obviously are aware that the WORD [made flesh][Yeshua] already existed from the very beginning, since Paul claims in Colossians that He is the first and last, beginning and the end, alpha and omega, etc.

we know He was Melchizedek [Abraham's personal High Priest], He was God with 2 angels who met Abram and told Sarai she would have a baby before sending His angels to Sodom and Gomorrha, He wrestled with Jacob, He revealed His backside to Moses and His hand wrote the 10 Commandments, He was the captain of God's army who met Joshua, He was the 4th man with Shadrack, Meshach, and Abednego, He was the man standing on the river water in Daniel's vision, He was the Ancient ONE sitting on the throne in Ezekiel that is similar to Revelation.

so clearly, the WORD existed well before coming as the Messiah.

and common sense would say, the WORD, the Holy Spirit, Yahweh as the attributes of the ONE GOD existed from day ONE!! therefore, we know the Holy Spirit was really not the Father of the WORD, but an equal attribute of God as the WORD.

but for the sake of how God chose to come to us as the Messiah, and how scripture appears to be interpreted, the Holy Spirit is acting like the Father by placing the seed of the WORD within Mary. and as scripture indicates, Yeshua begins talking about the Father living within Him, and He is full of the Holy Spirit since He blows it upon His Disciples and instructs them to receive.

but from your perspective, the INVISIBLE GOD is the Holy Spirit to which Yeshua is the VISIBLE IMAGE of. which makes sense because Yeshua had the complete fullness of God. but, it also seems that you are claiming the Holy Spirit is also Yahweh [which makes sense from the ONENESS point of view].

I could see this as being an example of the ONENESS!!

since it was YOU who brought this up concerning who the Holy Spirit is/was in the Gospels, am I even close in my explanation to what you are getting at?

 

[Noose]

What does "Lord said to my Lord" mean and what does "I put your enemies under your feet" mean?

Concentrate on "I, your" and "Lord said to Lord", these are parts which I wonder how you read them. Because, taken literally, it again destroys your position. So you must read it in some different way. Which one?

I do not want your defense, just the information how you read it, simply and clearly, give me one sentence for each. For exaple, calvinists read "God loved the world" like "God loved the elect ones from the world". This is what i want from you to tell me, how you read the verse above.

Yes on the outward and also what i thought initially of the verse was that one person (First Lord) is speaking to another person (second Lord) but it's not- This verse like the other one on Jesus' baptism is an almost physical presentation of authorities of God for your sake. All this verse says is that the son will be triumphant.

I'm not going to add or reduce words in scripture, someone might think ill of me. I'll let the scripture say what it says but from my end, that verse means - the Father's works will attain victory through the son, a prophesy.