Christ is God

[Noose]

Again, Jesus draws a correlation with the Father here:

John 14:9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

John 16:12“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

Does anyone have eyes anymore?

1. In the first part, Jesus says the Father is glorified through the son when the son does the works given by the Father
2. In the second part, Jesus says He will be glorified when the Holy spirit comes in them and does the works that He (Jesus) has given Him (The Holy spirit).

Logical conclusion:

Jesus is the Father and we take up the authority of the son.

 

[GodisONE]

Ok, open your ears and eyes and stick with me:

John 14: 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. .....

23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.....

John 16: 7But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

1. So the comforter can not come unless Jesus goes and when He goes, the comforter will come.
2. Jesus also says that the comforter was already there with them but will be in them when He (Jesus) goes
3. Jesus says that He will not leave them as orphans (the word should be correctly translated as comfortless), H will come to them shortly after going
4. Jesus says He will come into them that obey Him with His Father and make a home with them

Logical conclusion:
Jesus is the comforter who was there with them but had to go and come in a different form/authority and indwell them. If Jesus doesn't go, then the comforter can not come. This is not how distinct persons behave.

This badly defeats the notion that Jesus is not the Holy spirit and the Father is not Jesus.

it's rather obvious the fullness of God was Yeshua. we know by Yeshua's own words the Father lived inside Him, and we know as the Messiah [Anointed ONE meant He was full of the Holy Spirit]...

so Yeshua claiming the Holy Spirit is near them meant the Holy Spirit within Yeshua was near them, not a first, second, third person.

clearly, if there was a trinity it was Yeshua being He had the Father and Holy Spirit living in Him while being the visible image of God. and this description clearly concludes the trinity IS NOT 3 PERSONS, but ONE PERSON with all 3 attributes.

Yeshua breathed on His Disciples to receive the Holy Spirit = Holy Spirit is inside Yeshua.
Yeshua admits He is not do the works or saying what is being said because the Father lives in Him doing it.
this is concrete evidence that Yeshua is ALL of God wrapped in ONE!!
which can be broken down to that Yeshua is the Father and the Holy Spirit is the personal Spirit of God.

because as being saved, I have Yeshua in me.
how?
the Holy Spirt.
so clearly the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Yeshua, since I have Yeshua in me.
by Spirit is the only way Yeshua can be in us all!!

 

[Noose]

it's rather obvious the fullness of God was Yeshua. we know by Yeshua's own words the Father lived inside Him, and we know as the Messiah [Anointed ONE meant He was full of the Holy Spirit]...

so Yeshua claiming the Holy Spirit is near them meant the Holy Spirit within Yeshua was near them, not a first, second, third person.

clearly, if there was a trinity it was Yeshua being He had the Father and Holy Spirit living in Him while being the visible image of God. and this description clearly concludes the trinity IS NOT 3 PERSONS, but ONE PERSON with all 3 attributes.

Yeshua breathed on His Disciples to receive the Holy Spirit = Holy Spirit is inside Yeshua.
Yeshua admits He is not do the works or saying what is being said because the Father lives in Him doing it.
this is concrete evidence that Yeshua is ALL of God wrapped in ONE!!
which can be broken down to that Yeshua is the Father and the Holy Spirit is the personal Spirit of God.

because as being saved, I have Yeshua in me.
how?
the Holy Spirt.
so clearly the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Yeshua, since I have Yeshua in me.
by Spirit is the only way Yeshua can be in us all!!

This is the only conclusion that one can come to, i don't understand that >90% of christians can't see.

 

[Enoch987]

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

Isaiah 44:6- (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Can you explain why the Lord called Jesus "My chosen servant?"
Mount of Transfiguration in Luke 9:35, God says of Jesus, "This is my chosen Son."
A choice requires 2 or more sons to chose from in order to bestow the title of firstborn (Colossians and Hebrews).
Luke 9:35 was "This is my beloved Son," in the King James Bible.
Christian orthodoxy has not taken into account the modern bibles translated from the earliest manuscripts.
Instead it relies on the Textus Receptus and the Creeds.
Protestants are taught the Creeds but don't know that because the Bible is taught to them according to the Creeds.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 in the Septuagint and Catholic Bible.
The Most High God divided the nations according to the number of sons of God.
YHWH's portion is Israel.
(There is no God before or after Jesus over Israel).
Same verse in Masoretic and Protestant.
The Most High God divided the nations according to the number of sons of Israel (they numbered 70 in Genesis 46).
YHWH's portion is Israel.
(Masoretic avoids teaching there are sons of God.)

The Father and Son are YHWH.
The Father and the Son are God over Israel.
The Father is God over all nations.
The Son is God over Israel but will be God over all nations.
He currently rules in the hearts of believers.
The Father is the Most High God.
Jesus is the Son of the Most High God.
Jesus is not the Most High God.
Father and Son are YHWH.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus is not the Most High God.

You just contradicted yourself.

If A = C

And B = C

Then A = B

If the Father = YHWH = God

And the Son = YHWH = God

Then the Son is indeed the most High God (with the Father and the Holy Spirit).

 

[trofimus]

Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

You now know that Jesus has a new authority - He is the Father and we are the son. When everything is put under our feet and we have crushed our enemies as a kingdom here on earth, then we shall hand over everything back to the one who gave us the authority and we will be subject to Him.

So, again, I am not sure what you are saying. Does Jesus exist with the Father or is He only the Father, now?

Also, how does the Holy Spirit fit into it?

 

[Noose]

So, again, I am not sure what you are saying. Does Jesus exist with the Father or is He only the Father, now?

Also, how does the Holy Spirit fit into it?

Jesus is the Father (New authority/name) and we are the sons (new city of God)

Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

The Father indwells the son as the Holy spirit - post#421/420 explains it better.

Precisely:
John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

 

[trofimus]

That event never meant that the Father is a separate entity speaking from the clouds (separate place) and it never meant that the Holy spirit was separate entity coming in the form of a dove from a different place to rest on Jesus. The Father and the Holy spirit are within Jesus, but because John had to see something and hear the approval, it happened to John that the Father spoke from heaven and that the spirit descended on Jesus to fulfill what he was told earlier ("...the one who the spirit will descend and remain..").

If it is true that only John heard the voice and saw the dove, then these things appeared to him because he was in the spirit. Meaning that, it happened in his mind.

There's no way anyone would claim that the Father is a separate entity, speaking from heaven to the son who is on earth and conclude that they are two persons in one being. What do you mean one being when we can already see one being here on earth? it actually means the person speaking from heaven is not a being at all (this is blasphemous)

OR

You can conclude that the person speaking shares the same being with one He is speaking to which means that He is in Him but for the reasons i have already highlighted, it appeared to the listener and the hearer that it was distinct voice approving the one on the earth.

I have no idea why you think that only John the Baptist was able to see it.

Jer 31:3 The LORD appeared to him from afar: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving devotion. 4Again I will build you, and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel.

Psalms 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the loving devotion of the LORD extends to those who fear Him, and His righteousness to their children’s children—

So, if God has loved us with an everlasting love even before the world was created, doesn't it also mean He has been glorified with an everlasting glory even though the son has complied to His commands only recently?

You see, Jesus represents us when He makes that prayer because Jesus demonstrates sonship to us. If the Father is glorified because of the works that the Father has done through Jesus, then the Father will also be glorified through the works that He does through us and if the Father loved Jesus before the foundations of the world, He also loved us and that is the glory being shared before the foundations of the world.

Notice how Jesus keeps applying the same things for Himself and then to believers:

John 17:
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began....

10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. ...

22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity .....

24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. ....

26I have made youe known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

I asked you for a shorter response and you gave me a longer one. I see a problem here. You need sea of words and unrelated verses to make your position, which alone indicates something is wrong with the position, IMHO.

So, again, what does John 17:5 means, in your words? Just give me the sentence in your words.

 

[JChesney]

This is the only conclusion that one can come to, i don't understand that >90% of christians can't see.

probably 90% of Christians read some other Bible and see in it something else on the subject under discussion

 

[trofimus]

Jesus is the Father (New authority/name) and we are the sons (new city of God)

Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

The Father indwells the son as the Holy spirit - post#421/420 explains it better.

And the Revelation full of images and symbols is your basic theological book for this?

 

[GodisONE]

This is the only conclusion that one can come to, i don't understand that >90% of christians can't see.

AMEN!!

 

[Noose]

And the Revelation full of images and symbols is your basic theological book for this?

Nope.
Everywhere you go you'll see the same thing- Malachi 3:1/ Isaiah 9:6/John 14,15,16

 

[Enoch987]

You just contradicted yourself.

If A = C

And B = C

Then A = B

If the Father = YHWH = God

And the Son = YHWH = God

Then the Son is indeed the most High God (with the Father and the Holy Spirit).

Let me clarify. The Father is YHWH. The Son is YHWH. Often but not always, the Father is YHWH God while the Son is YHWH but not YHWH God. YHWH can be the Father or the Son or both.
There are 3 in the Godhead in Isaiah 7-10 and Jeremiah 50-51.
YHWH (LORD) God of hosts, YHWH (LORD) of hosts and the Holy One of Israel.
Luke 1:32 Jesus will be called the Son of the Most High.
You could argue that Jesus was the Most High before he was begotten as the son of Mary..
If you do so, then what do you do with Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8).
If you cling to Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever (and you define yesterday defined as eternity past,)
then what about "Though He was the Son, He learned obedience through suffering? Hebrews 5:8)

God the Father chose a son that would be obedient and would not seek his own glory.
The son was made the Son having the power and authority of the Father.

 

[JChesney]

I think if the Bible authors wanted to say that Jesus is a converted God-Father (YHWH), they would have done it distinctly, and that would be understandable to 100% of Christians.

 

[trofimus]

Nope.
Everywhere you go you'll see the same thing- Malachi 3:1/ Isaiah 9:6/John 14,15,16

How do you deal with the fact that the first Church taught and based by apostles, even the disciples of the apostles, did not see it in your way?
I admit that there are no clear Trinitirian formulas like "God is one being with three persons" in their writings, but their writigns are compatible with it. Not so regarding your view.

 

[GodisONE]

we know from scripture that Yeshua had the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT living inside Him.
that is the complete glory of God personified. this is Colossians 1:15 [Yeshua is the VISIBLE IMAGE to the INVISIBLE GOD] explained.

NO ONE ELSE has the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT inside them, because NO ONE ELSE is the ONE TRUE GOD like Yeshua is.

this is why Peter [Acts 2:38] and Paul [Acts 19:5] baptize in NAME of YESHUA, because Yeshua is the ONE TRUE GOD!!

Peter and Paul understood that Yeshua was the VISIBLE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD Yahweh they grew up believing in!!

this is why Yeshua claimed He was "I AM!!"

bottom line, Yeshua = the Father, and the Spirit of Yeshua = the Holy Spirit

NO OTHER PERSON ever had both attributes of God living inside of them but Yeshua!!

that is because NO OTHER PERSON was God, like Yeshua is.

Yeshua = Yahweh but in the flesh!!

 

[Noose]

How do you deal with the fact that the first Church taught and based by apostles, even the disciples of the apostles, did not see it in your way?
I admit that there are no clear Trinitirian formulas like "God is one being with three persons" in their writings, but their writigns are compatible with it. Not so regarding your view.

Nope.
You believe that the first church and the disciples believed what you believe but they did not.

 

[trofimus]

Nope.
You believe that the first church and the disciples believed what you believe but they did not.

Can you prove it from their writings?

 

[Noose]

Can you prove it from their writings?

Yes, Jesus sent the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit and they went straight ahead and baptized in the name of Jesus.

The apostles taught that the name (Authority) of Jesus is above every other authority there is, but you thought the Father is greater than Jesus- nope, the Father is greater than the son (us).

 

[trofimus]

Yes, Jesus sent the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit and they went straight ahead and baptized in the name of Jesus.

The apostles taught that the name (Authority) of Jesus is above every other authority there is, but you thought the Father is greater than Jesus- nope, the Father is greater than the son (us).

From the writings of the first church, of course. Ignatios, Polycarp (direct disciples of apostles), Didache, Barnabas etc.