Should A Minister Charge For His Ministry?
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The difference here is that what Paul rebuked Peter for was actions that were negating everything that Jesus just got done doing for them. Paul also rebuked Peter to his face. Here, you are trying to "rebuke" somebody who is not even a part of this thread over their actions that you "feel" are wrong. If you are going to give Godly correction to this person, you should to do it in person, not by throwing dirt at them from the internet. How are they to respond to your accusations if they are not present for them?
I hope that you do not feel that I threatened you with God's wrath, that was not my intent and if that is how it felt, then please accept my apology. I know that God moves in many ways and through many people. Some of the people who He moves through I love dearly, and some of the people He moves through I do not care for. BUT! If He loves them, and is working through them, I definitely do not wish to speak ill of them. No minister is without fault as they are simply humans who have agreed to follow God to the best of their ability. Some succeed amazingly well while others succeed only moderately well. Should we eliminate the ones who succeed only moderately well? Should we eliminate the ones who only save a few people from hell each week?
I personally believe that you are in the wrong to say that a minister cannot/should not charge for their services/time/life. You say that God will provide his wages, but refuse to acknowledge that God may in fact be providing for the minister's family through the hiring of them to minister at that event.
The usual here where I live is to give a "love" offering, however when it is not at a level that the pastor feels is appropriate, they will often add to the love offering out of the general fund of the church to bring it up to a level that is appropriate so that they are not such a burden on the minister. This is basically paying the minister wages and calling it something else (a love offering).
We, as the body of Christ, need to be careful to lift up those who God has called to minister and to not spend time tearing them down. We need to offer correction in love if we believe it to be appropriate.
Face to face is always the best, but letters or electronic communication works also.
I understand that this thread is not really about one singular person or event, and that you are frustrated by the actions that you are seeing growing in the ministering community. I believe, however, that by going and speaking with several of these ministers who you believe to be in the wrong and offering correction to them face to face, you will be able to tell them why you believe that they are in the wrong and they will have a chance to respond to your concerns.
You have the onus to do this, so please do it properly. I look forward to hearing your thoughts after these meetings and offered corrections.
I hope that you do not feel that I threatened you with God's wrath, that was not my intent and if that is how it felt, then please accept my apology. I know that God moves in many ways and through many people. Some of the people who He moves through I love dearly, and some of the people He moves through I do not care for. BUT! If He loves them, and is working through them, I definitely do not wish to speak ill of them. No minister is without fault as they are simply humans who have agreed to follow God to the best of their ability. Some succeed amazingly well while others succeed only moderately well. Should we eliminate the ones who succeed only moderately well? Should we eliminate the ones who only save a few people from hell each week?
I personally believe that you are in the wrong to say that a minister cannot/should not charge for their services/time/life. You say that God will provide his wages, but refuse to acknowledge that God may in fact be providing for the minister's family through the hiring of them to minister at that event.
The usual here where I live is to give a "love" offering, however when it is not at a level that the pastor feels is appropriate, they will often add to the love offering out of the general fund of the church to bring it up to a level that is appropriate so that they are not such a burden on the minister. This is basically paying the minister wages and calling it something else (a love offering).
We, as the body of Christ, need to be careful to lift up those who God has called to minister and to not spend time tearing them down. We need to offer correction in love if we believe it to be appropriate.
Face to face is always the best, but letters or electronic communication works also.
I understand that this thread is not really about one singular person or event, and that you are frustrated by the actions that you are seeing growing in the ministering community. I believe, however, that by going and speaking with several of these ministers who you believe to be in the wrong and offering correction to them face to face, you will be able to tell them why you believe that they are in the wrong and they will have a chance to respond to your concerns.
You have the onus to do this, so please do it properly. I look forward to hearing your thoughts after these meetings and offered corrections.
No!!! Jesus was very clear:
- "And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." (Matt 10.7-8).
Well Sir, I can't actually afford to go and meet all of them face to face, one-on-one, because this vice has become a world wide phenomenon, how do I travel round the world to warn all of these ministers to desist from what they are doing?
Then I am very glad you understand, I am not referring to a particular minister. The minister I cited, I actually know her name but purposely didn't mention her name. I used her case as a case study. The major essence of this thread is that this issue would be discussed with fellow ministers and believers around the world, so corrections can be taken for our own good. The intent is not to tear any particular minister down...
Then I am very glad you understand, I am not referring to a particular minister. The minister I cited, I actually know her name but purposely didn't mention her name. I used her case as a case study. The major essence of this thread is that this issue would be discussed with fellow ministers and believers around the world, so corrections can be taken for our own good. The intent is not to tear any particular minister down...
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So why does Paul write in 1Timothy 5:17-18, "The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For Scripture says, 'Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages'"?
The clear implication is that those ministering the gospel should make their living from the gospel. Oh, yeah, Paul wrote that too... in 1 Corinthians 9:14.
The clear implication is that those ministering the gospel should make their living from the gospel. Oh, yeah, Paul wrote that too... in 1 Corinthians 9:14.
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What? You cannot afford to go and meet all of them? Surely if God gave you the onus to correct them then He will supply your needs to do so yes? Please know that I am being light hearted and just kidding with you here. It is intended though to help you to see that even the minister who God has placed the onus to spread into their heart needs to have finances to properly accomplish that task. Even Paul had people saving up for him months in advance so that when he did come there would be no need to ask for offering.
God bless you brother.
God bless you brother.
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well they didn't have to hire her, did they? if the currency converter I used is right, that's about 2700.00 US $
you know, a local person with a decent voice could probably have sufficed, but you say the family has money
so, did they want to make a statement with their money? maybe you should look at their motives too
at any rate, I presume they went into this contract with the knowledge of what it would cost, so really, it's not about you
with regards to people with what you call a 'gift' charging for what they do, if that is how they make their living, then it is up to the recipients if they want to pay or not
in many cases, so called Christian ministries are more like a business
personally, I find it aborrent to watch someone on tv begging for money so they can continue to be on tv, but I don't have to watch them and I sure do not have to send them my hard earned money
I don't think you can lay a 'one size fits all' judgement on everyone who charges or even makes money off what they do
in the end, it's up to the people to decide if what is going on is something they want to support or if the money is just making people rich
I reserve my own thoughts on the matter, but I realize none of this is going to stop any time soon and I also think there is at times jealousy involved as well...Christians are notorious for that
due to the fact your relatives are rich as you say, my final word would be that it was between them and the person they contracted with. no one had a gun to their head or forced them to hire and pay her....right?
you know, a local person with a decent voice could probably have sufficed, but you say the family has money
so, did they want to make a statement with their money? maybe you should look at their motives too
at any rate, I presume they went into this contract with the knowledge of what it would cost, so really, it's not about you
with regards to people with what you call a 'gift' charging for what they do, if that is how they make their living, then it is up to the recipients if they want to pay or not
in many cases, so called Christian ministries are more like a business
personally, I find it aborrent to watch someone on tv begging for money so they can continue to be on tv, but I don't have to watch them and I sure do not have to send them my hard earned money
I don't think you can lay a 'one size fits all' judgement on everyone who charges or even makes money off what they do
in the end, it's up to the people to decide if what is going on is something they want to support or if the money is just making people rich
I reserve my own thoughts on the matter, but I realize none of this is going to stop any time soon and I also think there is at times jealousy involved as well...Christians are notorious for that
due to the fact your relatives are rich as you say, my final word would be that it was between them and the person they contracted with. no one had a gun to their head or forced them to hire and pay her....right?
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he was also single...had no family or responsibilities to anyone outside of himself and Paul was not the norm so no use in using him as some kind of formula everyone should follow
he also had an itinerant ministry and took up collections for churches so there goes your theory on no one receiving money