Why Calvinism is NOT biblical

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LW97

LW97

Senior Member
#21
Apr 10, 2018
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#21
trofimus said:
So it was certain you will choose Him before you was even born and therefore before you did anything?
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Well, before I was saved I was lost. But according to Calvinism some people were always saved while others will always remain lost.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#22
Aug 17, 2015
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#22
LW97 said:
Well, before I was saved I was lost. But according to Calvinism some people were always saved while others will always remain lost.
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Was it certain that you will be saved before you did anything or before you were even born?
 
OneFaith

OneFaith

Senior Member
#23
Sep 5, 2016
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#23
Even I, a mere human, can know the future before it happens, little as that may be. If I am standing in front of train tracks, and see a train coming up quickly, I know it will pass me by even before it does. Now, did me knowing that mean that I forced the driver to drive the train past me? Of course not. God says we have free will, and there are many "ifs" in the bible awaiting our decisions. Matter of fact, the bible says "He who knows the good he aught to do and chooses not to do it, sins." Freewill means we have choices, the bible says we have choices. To say otherwise is to call God a liar! Therefore, Calvinism doctrine is not a way to worship God, but a way to blasphemy God!
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#24
Aug 17, 2015
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#24
OneFaith said:
Matter of fact, the bible says "He who knows the good he aught to do and chooses not to do it, sins."
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If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them. J 4:17
I have not found even one translation having "chooses". And its not in Greek, anyway.

Also, its not the topic. We choose daily. The question is if our choices are certain (ie predestined) or if they are random, uncaused and unpredictable.
 
LW97

LW97

Senior Member
#25
Apr 10, 2018
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#25
OneFaith said:
Even I, a mere human, can know the future before it happens, little as that may be. If I am standing in front of train tracks, and see a train coming up quickly, I know it will pass me by even before it does. Now, did me knowing that mean that I forced the driver to drive the train past me? Of course not. God says we have free will, and there are many "ifs" in the bible awaiting our decisions. Matter of fact, the bible says "He who knows the good he aught to do and chooses not to do it, sins." Freewill means we have choices, the bible says we have choices. To say otherwise is to call God a liar! Therefore, Calvinism doctrine is not a way to worship God, but a way to blasphemy God!
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amen
 
LW97

LW97

Senior Member
#26
Apr 10, 2018
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#26
Yes, I still believe the one who has chosen to be saved will be a new creature and not forsake God, but that does not change the fact that Calvinism is false
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#27
Aug 17, 2015
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#27
LW97 said:
Yes, I still believe the one who has chosen to be saved will be a new creature and not forsake God, but that does not change the fact that Calvinism is false
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Are our choices unpredictable or are they certain and predestined?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#29
Aug 17, 2015
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#29
LW97 said:
Of course God knew them but he did not force us to do them
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So you agree that we are predestined, but you just do not want to call it "forced", right?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#33
Aug 17, 2015
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#33
LW97 said:
yes and no
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The question is so simple that its hard to imagine how can your answer be both yes and no.

Its either certain or not. There is nothing between.
 
OneFaith

OneFaith

Senior Member
#34
Sep 5, 2016
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#34
trofimus said:
Do you agree that we and our actions are certain, i.e. predestined?
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Let's put it to the test, shall we...

My brain (not God) just told my hand to touch my head.. and it did. Then i told my hand to lower back down, and it did. I guess I'm not a robot, but a human with freewill choices. Did God know I would do that? He knows everything before it even happens, but that does not mean He causes them to happen. He did not force me to touch my head.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#35
Aug 17, 2015
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#35
OneFaith said:
Let's put it to the test, shall we...

My brain (not God) just told my hand to touch my head.. and it did. Then i told my hand to lower back down, and it did. I guess I'm not a robot, but a human with freewill choices. Did God know I would do that? He knows everything before it even happens, but that does not mean He causes them to happen. He did not force me to touch my head.
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Any randomness is just an illusion. You did it to prove to yourself that you have a random will. But you did it because you read this thread, got the idea to do it because of it etc. It was predestined you will do it because it was a result of various certain causes. And of course, God knew it before the creation of the world.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#36
#36
LW97 said:
Nope, I believe the true believer is eternally secure
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well good

but my post was a joke on the endless threads on this subject

I was referring to leaving the thread

guess it went over your head

:geek:
 
O

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
#37
Jun 17, 2018
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#37
OneFaith said:
Let's put it to the test, shall we...

My brain (not God) just told my hand to touch my head.. and it did. Then i told my hand to lower back down, and it did. I guess I'm not a robot, but a human with freewill choices. Did God know I would do that? He knows everything before it even happens, but that does not mean He causes them to happen. He did not force me to touch my head.
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But you thought to share what is analogous to the topic of this thread and what God pre-plans.
 
O

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
#38
Jun 17, 2018
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#38
If God intended to show his church what it looks like to be in grace and yet sarcastic about it, he sure picked the right community.
 
S

shrume

Senior Member
#39
Jun 26, 2017
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#39
trofimus said:
The question is so simple that its hard to imagine how can your answer be both yes and no.

Its either certain or not. There is nothing between.
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The future for people who are saved is certain. The Christian new birth is permanent.

The future for people who are not saved is uncertain. They have up until their death to make a decision for Christ.
 
S

shrume

Senior Member
#40
Jun 26, 2017
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#40
trofimus said:
Any randomness is just an illusion. You did it to prove to yourself that you have a random will. But you did it because you read this thread, got the idea to do it because of it etc. It was predestined you will do it because it was a result of various certain causes. And of course, God knew it before the creation of the world.
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I do not believe either of those are true.

Prophecies come true because God makes them happen, not because He "lives outside of time" and knew they would.

God works within His creation.
 
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