Should a Christian tithe, what does the Bible say

[7seasrekeyed]

...and proclaiming what it doesn't actually say about tithing.

it seems there are many frustrated architects and construction workers in the church

 

[posthuman]

And that's a bad thing?

If you're an American then you know how welfare can be foolishly misguided and bankrupt a city, state, and nation.

that's post's way of hinting that social programs are Biblical.

it seems there are many frustrated architects and construction workers in the church

Also a number of would-be boat owners, captains without ships... Probably they would settle for large RVs..?

 

[Ralph-]

it seems there are many frustrated architects and construction workers in the church

Yes, and they will be even more disappointed when they see that the living stones they placed on the foundation of Christ in the temple of God through their flesh-centric teachings were really just hay, wood, and stubble and not the precious gems of God they had thought they were.

 

[john832]

Abraham was not under the law.

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Here are a couple of others for you to read...

Luk 4:4 But Jesus answered him, saying, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD.' "

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

According to the Jesus Christ (read Rev 1:1) the Saints keep the Commandments.

 

[Ralph-]

that's post's way of hinting that social programs are Biblical.

Which they are, as long as they are for the benefit of those "who are really in need" (1 Timothy 5:3).

 

[posthuman]

Which they are, as long as they are for the benefit of those "who are really in need" (1 Timothy 5:3).

It's abuse that's the problem, IMO, not the programs themselves. It's similar among believers, abuse of God's grace is the issue, not the fact of His grace. And many people try to solve that doctrinally by adding works requirements, as though mercy must be earned. IMO this kind of thinking arises from a lack of trust in God to work a real change in a person Himself, so behaviour modification is 'forced' onto people outwardly for fear that it will never appear from the inside and work its way out.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yes, and they will be even more disappointed when they see that the living stones they placed on the foundation of Christ in the temple of God through their flesh-centric teachings were really just hay, wood, and stubble and not the precious gems of God they had thought they were.

oh this is good!

'living stones'...didn't think of that

what a great analogy

 

[7seasrekeyed]

that's post's way of hinting that social programs are Biblical.



Also a number of would-be boat owners, captains without ships... Probably they would settle for large RVs..?

some of those RV's tooting down the road could easily pass for a ship...especially when they sway side to side

 

[Dino246]

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Here are a couple of others for you to read...

Luk 4:4 But Jesus answered him, saying, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD.' "

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

According to the Jesus Christ (read Rev 1:1) the Saints keep the Commandments.

According to Acts, Romans, Galatians, Colossians and Hebrews, Christians are not under the Law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Here's a list describing Abraham's obedience. No mention of the law of Moses, however.

He:

• left Ur of the Chaldees upon GOD's order
• left Haran upon GOD's order
• believed GOD's promise
• sojourned as a stranger in the land of Canaan upon GOD's order
• circumcised himself and his house as commanded by GOD
• offered Isaac as commanded by GOD

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[posthuman]

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Here are a couple of others for you to read...

Luk 4:4 But Jesus answered him, saying, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD.' "

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

According to the Jesus Christ (read Rev 1:1) the Saints keep the Commandments.

Yes
So there are obvious questions:

What commands does the Bible record God giving to Abraham?
What commands does the Bible record Christ giving to us?

The example of physical circumcision - commanded to Abraham, not commanded to Christians - makes it obvious that we cannot assume every place we see the word commandments it is always talking about the same thing. Or sacrifices commanded to the children of Israel, this is not the Law we are given, so obviously just because we read 'commandments' we can't jump to the conclusion that it means for example everything in the Torah. For example tithe. Never recorded as commanded to Abraham, never commanded to Christians.

What commands did Jesus give to the church, when was He talking to Israel under the Law and when does He speak to those under His new covenant? We have to ask these questions and we have to seek out the true answers.

 

[Ralph-]

It's abuse that's the problem, IMO, not the programs themselves. It's similar among believers, abuse of God's grace is the issue, not the fact of His grace.

For most Christian's, their doctrine is polarized to the extreme of both wrongs. Grace is not a license to have dead faith, and grace is not the power to now earn your own salvation. The former easily being the predominate problem in the church today. The latter being pushed by a few outsiders creeping into the Protestant church.

And many people try to solve that doctrinally by adding works requirements, as though mercy must be earned.

Many? No, not in my observation. I only see outsiders (mainly Catholics) pushing the 'works justify' agenda in the few places I see it being pushed among Protestants.

And among the Protestants who stress the necessity to have 'living' active faith (as opposed to dead faith), it's not that they think works earn God's grace and mercy, but rather grace, by virtue of what grace is, has a certain expectation attached to it for the person who receives it that the person must not hinder. Like receiving a bucket full of cold water over the head. It has the obligatory expectation attached to it that you are going to get wet. You don't make yourself get wet, that happens by virtue of receiving the water itself, but you do have the obligation to not run away from the water and to let it drench you.....I mean if you want to make some kind of claim of being wet.

 

[Donmech]

The scriptures speak better than me, unlike you, preferring your own "good" words, yes well said indeed, all prophesied about for this corrupted ending, you only fulfil the lot..

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Highly esteemed with each other, only equals to one thing, then be it, because if you are unjust in the least, yes you are unjust in much, I hope you love the many scriptures, I do..

Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Sir, No disrespect indented but, How dare you! You do not or could not know my heart. You make cherry-picked accusations not knowing me at all. Nowhere in my previous post have I given you reason to attack my character. I do not mind constructive criticism when it is founded and I am willing to conceder any and all viewpoints. If you wish to disagree with me or anyone else on an issue, that is your right but to accuse me of making division, that I do not serve the Lord but my own belly, that I am deceiving the hearts of the simple, that I am proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words is disingenuous. You accuse me of having a corrupt mind and destitute of the truth. You accuse me of justifying myself before men. You have no idea as to how much I give. I can tell you this; my giving exceeds 10%! Does that steal make me all these things you have suggested just because I don't designate my giving as the tithe? I certainly don't think so. I suggest you politely make your point, state your views and reframe from making un-founded accusations where you have no evidence to back it up. Its easy to cherry-pick scripture to accuse the brethren but you better be sure you've removed the beam from your own eye.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Sir, No disrespect indented but, How dare you! You do not or could not know my heart. You make cherry-picked accusations not knowing me at all. Nowhere in my previous post have I given you reason to attack my character. I do not mind constructive criticism when it is founded and I am willing to conceder any and all viewpoints, however, if you wish to disagree with me or anyone else on an issue, that is your right but to accuse me of making division, that I do not serve the Lord but my own belly, that I am deceiving the hearts of the simple, that I am proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words. You accuse me of having a corrupt mind and destitute of the truth. You accuse me of justifying myself before men. You have no idea as to how much I give. I can tell you this; my giving exceeds 10%! Does that steal make me all these things you have suggested just because I don't designate my giving as the tithe? I certainly don't think so. I suggest you politely make your point, state your views and reframe from making un-founded accusations where you have no evidence to back it up. Its easy to cherry-pick scripture to accuse the brethren but you better be sure you've removed the beam from your own eye.

he was banned some time ago

don't worry about it

 

[Donmech]

he was banned some time ago

don't worry about it

Thanks, I have been gone to church camp for the past few days and was not aware he had been banned.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

he was banned some time ago

don't worry about it

How do you know he was banned? I thought he gave up and left.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

How do you know he was banned? I thought he gave up and left.

click on his name

profile not available

means he was shown the door

apparently there are no more 'banned' under the names as before with the new interface

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

click on his name
profile not available
means he was shown the door
apparently there are no more 'banned' under the names as before with the new interface

Tithing seemed like the #1 commandment to him. That and the fact that he included in his last post (which they deleted) his email address and a note for interested persons to contact him make me think he had ulterior motives.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Tithing seemed like the #1 commandment to him. That and the fact that he included in his last post (which they deleted) his email address and a note for interested persons to contact him make me think he had ulterior motives.

yeah I think that may have been a step too far

lesson to be learned for those who think anything goes I guess

 

[john832]

According to Acts, Romans, Galatians, Colossians and Hebrews, Christians are not under the Law.

What that means is Christians are not under the condemnation or penalty of the Law if they have repented, been baptized and received the Holy Spirit.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Christ plainly says this...

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Saints (Christians) are described thusly...

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

John tells us this...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Some writings of Paul...

Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Rom 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

The Law describes sin...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

The Law is not the problem...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Last half of the verse shows us the problem. We have met the enemy and he is us.

Paul understood this....

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin

He intended to keep the Law but still stumbled and sinned because he was still human. He understood that conversion was a process and that we are not perfect at conversion. It is a lifelong process...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

We spend our life rooting out sin and becoming more converted...

2Pe 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

How did Paul feel about the Commandments?

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.