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7seasrekeyed
Guest
...and proclaiming what it doesn't actually say about tithing.
it seems there are many frustrated architects and construction workers in the church
Should a Christian tithe, what does the Bible say
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it seems there are many frustrated architects and construction workers in the church
that's post's way of hinting that social programs are Biblical.
it seems there are many frustrated architects and construction workers in the church
Also a number of would-be boat owners, captains without ships... Probably they would settle for large RVs..?
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Ralph-
Guest
Yes, and they will be even more disappointed when they see that the living stones they placed on the foundation of Christ in the temple of God through their flesh-centric teachings were really just hay, wood, and stubble and not the precious gems of God they had thought they were.it seems there are many frustrated architects and construction workers in the church
Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
Here are a couple of others for you to read...
Luk 4:4 But Jesus answered him, saying, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD.' "
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
According to the Jesus Christ (read Rev 1:1) the Saints keep the Commandments.
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Ralph-
Guest
Which they are, as long as they are for the benefit of those "who are really in need" (1 Timothy 5:3).
It's abuse that's the problem, IMO, not the programs themselves. It's similar among believers, abuse of God's grace is the issue, not the fact of His grace. And many people try to solve that doctrinally by adding works requirements, as though mercy must be earned. IMO this kind of thinking arises from a lack of trust in God to work a real change in a person Himself, so behaviour modification is 'forced' onto people outwardly for fear that it will never appear from the inside and work its way out.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
some of those RV's tooting down the road could easily pass for a ship...especially when they sway side to side
According to Acts, Romans, Galatians, Colossians and Hebrews, Christians are not under the Law.
Here's a list describing Abraham's obedience. No mention of the law of Moses, however.
He:
- left Ur of the Chaldees upon GOD's order
- left Haran upon GOD's order
- believed GOD's promise
- sojourned as a stranger in the land of Canaan upon GOD's order
- circumcised himself and his house as commanded by GOD
- offered Isaac as commanded by GOD
Yes
So there are obvious questions:
What commands does the Bible record God giving to Abraham?
What commands does the Bible record Christ giving to us?
The example of physical circumcision - commanded to Abraham, not commanded to Christians - makes it obvious that we cannot assume every place we see the word commandments it is always talking about the same thing. Or sacrifices commanded to the children of Israel, this is not the Law we are given, so obviously just because we read 'commandments' we can't jump to the conclusion that it means for example everything in the Torah. For example tithe. Never recorded as commanded to Abraham, never commanded to Christians.
What commands did Jesus give to the church, when was He talking to Israel under the Law and when does He speak to those under His new covenant? We have to ask these questions and we have to seek out the true answers.
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Ralph-
Guest
For most Christian's, their doctrine is polarized to the extreme of both wrongs. Grace is not a license to have dead faith, and grace is not the power to now earn your own salvation. The former easily being the predominate problem in the church today. The latter being pushed by a few outsiders creeping into the Protestant church.
Many? No, not in my observation. I only see outsiders (mainly Catholics) pushing the 'works justify' agenda in the few places I see it being pushed among Protestants.
And among the Protestants who stress the necessity to have 'living' active faith (as opposed to dead faith), it's not that they think works earn God's grace and mercy, but rather grace, by virtue of what grace is, has a certain expectation attached to it for the person who receives it that the person must not hinder. Like receiving a bucket full of cold water over the head. It has the obligatory expectation attached to it that you are going to get wet. You don't make yourself get wet, that happens by virtue of receiving the water itself, but you do have the obligation to not run away from the water and to let it drench you.....I mean if you want to make some kind of claim of being wet.
Sir, No disrespect indented but, How dare you! You do not or could not know my heart. You make cherry-picked accusations not knowing me at all. Nowhere in my previous post have I given you reason to attack my character. I do not mind constructive criticism when it is founded and I am willing to conceder any and all viewpoints. If you wish to disagree with me or anyone else on an issue, that is your right but to accuse me of making division, that I do not serve the Lord but my own belly, that I am deceiving the hearts of the simple, that I am proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words is disingenuous. You accuse me of having a corrupt mind and destitute of the truth. You accuse me of justifying myself before men. You have no idea as to how much I give. I can tell you this; my giving exceeds 10%! Does that steal make me all these things you have suggested just because I don't designate my giving as the tithe? I certainly don't think so. I suggest you politely make your point, state your views and reframe from making un-founded accusations where you have no evidence to back it up. Its easy to cherry-pick scripture to accuse the brethren but you better be sure you've removed the beam from your own eye.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
Thanks, I have been gone to church camp for the past few days and was not aware he had been banned.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
click on his name
profile not available
means he was shown the door
apparently there are no more 'banned' under the names as before with the new interface
Tithing seemed like the #1 commandment to him. That and the fact that he included in his last post (which they deleted) his email address and a note for interested persons to contact him make me think he had ulterior motives.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
yeah I think that may have been a step too far
lesson to be learned for those who think anything goes I guess
What that means is Christians are not under the condemnation or penalty of the Law if they have repented, been baptized and received the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Christ plainly says this...
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Saints (Christians) are described thusly...
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
John tells us this...
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
Some writings of Paul...
Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
Rom 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?
The Law describes sin...
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
The Law is not the problem...
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Last half of the verse shows us the problem. We have met the enemy and he is us.
Paul understood this....
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin
He intended to keep the Law but still stumbled and sinned because he was still human. He understood that conversion was a process and that we are not perfect at conversion. It is a lifelong process...
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
We spend our life rooting out sin and becoming more converted...
2Pe 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
How did Paul feel about the Commandments?
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.