God sending People He made and loves to the lake of fire.
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Do you think you can just muscle your way in here and hijack my thread? : )
As I have been saying over and over. This is about the verses I posted appearing to say all peoples are saved. And in my eyes, because I speak English clearly, and I study them, they simply state all peoples are saved. And you appear to agree but change it to fit your theology of it meaning or speaking of just some. Yet they are clearly worded so that there can be no mistaking. All is all. The whole world is the whole world. All peoples means everybody. You have to completely ignore the Lords simply stated verses in order to have the theology you have. Seriously. What loving rational Christian would deny Jesus's simply stated word.
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me.
I completely agree that only believers are saved. That every Knee shall bow in the end and all will praise God as it is simply written.
How is the fear of eternal damnation helping you with your sins? That scare tactic isn't working. Most people shun the whole thing because it's obvious that a loving God that would cast children He made into eternal punish is an evil Satan and the religion is completely contradictive. So much so that it is perplexing how people can be so self righteous while yet still sinners and think they are saved solely because they claim to believe. When Jesus said simply:
If you believe, keep my commands. So in all reality, sinners cant be real believers and need saving just as much as those who just outright reject it. Repent then be baptized. Let he who is without sin cast the first child into the lake.
As I have been saying over and over. This is about the verses I posted appearing to say all peoples are saved. And in my eyes, because I speak English clearly, and I study them, they simply state all peoples are saved. And you appear to agree but change it to fit your theology of it meaning or speaking of just some. Yet they are clearly worded so that there can be no mistaking. All is all. The whole world is the whole world. All peoples means everybody. You have to completely ignore the Lords simply stated verses in order to have the theology you have. Seriously. What loving rational Christian would deny Jesus's simply stated word.
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me.
I completely agree that only believers are saved. That every Knee shall bow in the end and all will praise God as it is simply written.
How is the fear of eternal damnation helping you with your sins? That scare tactic isn't working. Most people shun the whole thing because it's obvious that a loving God that would cast children He made into eternal punish is an evil Satan and the religion is completely contradictive. So much so that it is perplexing how people can be so self righteous while yet still sinners and think they are saved solely because they claim to believe. When Jesus said simply:
If you believe, keep my commands. So in all reality, sinners cant be real believers and need saving just as much as those who just outright reject it. Repent then be baptized. Let he who is without sin cast the first child into the lake.
Faith is a gift that is not earned. Saying what you said means God predestined His children to eternal punishment. That would be so Satan like it. A loving God casting His own child into eternal punishment. A child that He formed in the womb. Do you ever really even consider the complete horror that your god is if that is true? I will pray for you to get understanding of what real love is.
I see that you are upset because no one really took the verses you posted and addressed them. I will attempt to do just that although you posted a whole page!!!!! Jesus died for the world . . . he was sent to be the Savior of the world but NOT ALL will believe in him so NOT ALL will be saved.
He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world . . . but he is the propitiation ONLY to those who BELIEVE in him.
Again, he is the Savior of the world but NOT ALL will believe in him so NOT ALL will be saved.
Who does he give life to? those who believe on him receive eternal life.
He will draw those men unto himself who believe in him - all here is all with distinction not all without exception. The distinction being those who believe.
he should give eternal life to as many as god has given him - those who believe in him are those that God has given him and he gives eternal life to those who believe in him.
He tasted death for those who will receive eternal life, i.e. those who believe in him.
I am not going through every one of those verses - here is my original post: Post #25 - Not everyone is God's kid . . . only those who have been born again of the Spirit and the only way to be born again of the Spirit and be saved from God's wrath is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead - then and only then is one a child of God. . . . I think this answer is sufficient for all the verses you posted.
He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world . . . but he is the propitiation ONLY to those who BELIEVE in him.
Again, he is the Savior of the world but NOT ALL will believe in him so NOT ALL will be saved.
Who does he give life to? those who believe on him receive eternal life.
He will draw those men unto himself who believe in him - all here is all with distinction not all without exception. The distinction being those who believe.
he should give eternal life to as many as god has given him - those who believe in him are those that God has given him and he gives eternal life to those who believe in him.
He tasted death for those who will receive eternal life, i.e. those who believe in him.
I am not going through every one of those verses - here is my original post: Post #25 - Not everyone is God's kid . . . only those who have been born again of the Spirit and the only way to be born again of the Spirit and be saved from God's wrath is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead - then and only then is one a child of God. . . . I think this answer is sufficient for all the verses you posted.
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The punishment for sin is death.
As for those the reject Him, Jesus spoke clearly on it.
John 12 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
It couldn't be any more clear than that if one was trying to convey that He does not judge men but will save them all.
As for those the reject Him, Jesus spoke clearly on it.
John 12 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
It couldn't be any more clear than that if one was trying to convey that He does not judge men but will save them all.
You don't have to reply to them all. It was not my attention to put anyone through that much work. Only to show how many there actually are that clearly state all peoples saved.
Im not upset. I preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ properly. By letting Jesus and the Bible do the talking. Then I show people how they are not able to understand even elementary style writings. Writings that are so simply stated one would have to be blinded by Satan to not be able to see it. They define themselves. People change and ignore them to try and make their theology, which is a horrible one where Satan is the god, and most people go to eternal punishment. My Lord. That is just awful to even think about. Seriously.
Im not upset. I preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ properly. By letting Jesus and the Bible do the talking. Then I show people how they are not able to understand even elementary style writings. Writings that are so simply stated one would have to be blinded by Satan to not be able to see it. They define themselves. People change and ignore them to try and make their theology, which is a horrible one where Satan is the god, and most people go to eternal punishment. My Lord. That is just awful to even think about. Seriously.
I agree on many things with you Chuckyz2, people can't see the wages of sin is death not everlasting life in fire. You see in the scriptures a future instance where God is offering salvation after the second resurrection, which is true. That said, there is no second chance so those who receive the Holy Spirit in this life and reject it will die.
This much being said about this is sure to draw fire, but I am not a universalist. God is purging the universe of evil. Some people set their hearts on evil. They and the evil fallen angels will be totally annihilated at the very end. God will not tolerate evil forever. We can talk more on this later.
This much being said about this is sure to draw fire, but I am not a universalist. God is purging the universe of evil. Some people set their hearts on evil. They and the evil fallen angels will be totally annihilated at the very end. God will not tolerate evil forever. We can talk more on this later.
I am glad you study the Scriptures, but your western interpretation has clouded you judgement. The Scriptures are written for a near Eastern cultural context. Being that the Jews did not understand the the Savior would the Savior of the world, all men (humans) or the Savior of every tribe, nation like in Revelation 7:9-10, 13:7-8, 14:6-7
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”
Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Are you saying that people that has not been written in the book of life go to be with the Lord?
Back to Jewish culture, when the idea the God would save the worl it is speaping of every tribe and every nation and language and nation or all types of people, because listen to what Jesus said in Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
And he only sent His disciples to them as well before the Great Commissiom, Matthew 10:5-7
These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven [a]is at hand.’
Also listen to what Paul says in Romans 3:9-20
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit”; “The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
If all people are saved why does Paul say this about unbelievers, yet for those that have faith in Jesus He says this in verses 21-31
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
Not all are saved only those that are born again to have faith in Jesus.
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”
Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Are you saying that people that has not been written in the book of life go to be with the Lord?
Back to Jewish culture, when the idea the God would save the worl it is speaping of every tribe and every nation and language and nation or all types of people, because listen to what Jesus said in Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
And he only sent His disciples to them as well before the Great Commissiom, Matthew 10:5-7
These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven [a]is at hand.’
Also listen to what Paul says in Romans 3:9-20
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit”; “The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
If all people are saved why does Paul say this about unbelievers, yet for those that have faith in Jesus He says this in verses 21-31
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
Not all are saved only those that are born again to have faith in Jesus.
What do you do with these, Chucky?
John 5:
22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Mat 5:
21) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 10:
15) Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Rom 2:
3) And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Heb 10:
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Jude 1:
15) To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
John 5:
22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Mat 5:
21) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 10:
15) Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Rom 2:
3) And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Heb 10:
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Jude 1:
15) To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
I'm sorry you went to all the trouble to post all of those. I cant go answer them all at once. If you would like to break it down one or two at a time I would be happy to show you how you change scripture I will start with the first one.
You say he will then you say He won't. You 100% stated a contradiction.
And you don't even appear to be aware of it.
1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours
only but also for the whole world.
The "not for ours only" is the believers
the "whole world" is believers and non believers combined.
Its a no brainer. Omg. A little child could see it for what it obviously says,
If God actually cast people into hell, those that change the words in scripture would be the first to go.
But He doesn't, so you are safe. : )
You say he will then you say He won't. You 100% stated a contradiction.
And you don't even appear to be aware of it.
1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours
only but also for the whole world.
The "not for ours only" is the believers
the "whole world" is believers and non believers combined.
Its a no brainer. Omg. A little child could see it for what it obviously says,
If God actually cast people into hell, those that change the words in scripture would be the first to go.
But He doesn't, so you are safe. : )