God sending People He made and loves to the lake of fire.

[wolfwint]

But the verses include verses that say everyone comes to believe eventually.

Where the bible says clear that all human will believe in Jesus Christ and be saved from John 3,16? How clear a verse must state, that without believing in Jesus Christ everybody is lost?
Your view excuses all crime which is done. Evereybody can live as he want and can do all what God is hateing.
The consequence of this teaching is:
I can live as I want and as it pleases me, at the end God forgive me anyway.
This is teaching which leads people astray!

 

[Chuckyz2]

I don’t think God ‘sends’ anyone to 'hell'. Look at it this way. Suppose I built a resort for the homeless, and all I asked was that on their way in the door they acknowledge and thank me for doing so. “Hey man, I really appreciate you doing this” and you’re in the door. Tell me to kiss off, and you can go sit outside on the curb. Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit outside on the curb?

Too, what is hell? Our universe is made up at the subatomic level with clusters of like charged particles, which science tells us should naturally repel each other. They call the unknown factor that keeps it all from exploding "the strong force". There are several theories as to the source of this ‘strong force’, including God’s claim that He holds it all together. Now, on that theory, God claims He spoke it all into being out of nothingness - while science says out of nothingness, kaboom there it is. Are those really 2 different stories?

And then there’s dark matter/energy. Scientific estimates vary, but they hover around the theory that 90% of what makes up the universe, we can’t see, except for how it affects the things we can see. God says there is another realm that we can’t see, other than how it affects what we can see. And He wants His 10% back. Again, are these really unrelated?

God also says that someday He will speak this universe out of existence. Paul describes that moment, saying the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Think of what results when the atom is split – intense heat and fire.

Now, the interesting thing is, that we don’t see the lake of fire (hell) appear until right after this present earth and heavens are de-created.

Could it be that the de-creation of our world creates the lake of fire?

Could it be that God lets those who loved this world more than Him, have it in its natural state apart from Him?

God lets us choose. It’s the only way He can know if the love we give Him is real - by giving us the ability to choose not to.

I'm not sure how your analogy changes the simply stated verses I posted that say all peoples are saved.
The science isn't relevant to this subject as I am trying to spark discussion on the definition of the simply stated verses. In this case something exploded into nothing. But I love science and am very familiar with particles and dark matter. There is not dual beliefs in what bounces those particles around. Its a sound vibration. Without His voice it crumbles to dust. He could make it burn if He so chose and the scripture say the lake of was created for Satan and his angels. Properly defined that means it has already been created and exists somewhere. It doesn't say, "It will be created"
Hope that helps.
I am trying to define the what the scripture says.
Aside from what we think or what other scripture says.
Just the ones I posted that appear to me to say all peoples are saved.
Do they appear to you to say that also?

 

[Chuckyz2]

Where the bible says clear that all human will believe in Jesus Christ and be saved from John 3,16? How clear a verse must state, that without believing in Jesus Christ everybody is lost?
Your view excuses all crime which is done. Evereybody can live as he want and can do all what God is hateing.
The consequence of this teaching is:
I can live as I want and as it pleases me, at the end God forgive me anyway.
This is teaching which leads people astray!

You believing that is something that would happen doesn't change what the verses say.
If you read them, please tell me what they actually say in your eyes.
You can then say why they should or shouldn't say what they say.
Thinking there would be a negative result from excepting the truth as it is written doesn't change the truth.

 

[Seedz]

I know that a large majority of believers believe that most people get cast on judgment day.
I also know there are a lot more people that don't believe it but keep hush about it because
they know they will be shunned by their church and fellow Christians.
I am also aware that there are a few, and only a few verses in the Bible that can actually
appear to say it. But there are numerous verses that say all peoples are saved.
Why are they never discussed in Christian forums?
Here are some. In case anyone is interested in discussing them.

1. 1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of
the world. (Can this mean part of the world?)

2. 1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours
only but also for the whole world. (Never mind. I think this answered my question)

3. John 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.

4. John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

5. John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

6. John 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

7. Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour;that he
by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

8. Heb 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

9. 1 Tim 4:9-11
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer
reproach,because we trust in the living God,
who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that
believe.
11 These things command and teach. (wow. How can anyone question that?)

10. 1 Tim 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of
God our Savior;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto
the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in
due time.

Col 1
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile >all things< unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Col 1
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Rom 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience >many< were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall >many< be made righteous.
Rom 8
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
(Animals will be saved also. Thought Id throw that in there. : ) )

Romans 11
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (Pretty forth right, no?)

1 Cor 4
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

1 Cor 11
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Cor 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

2 Cor 5
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
Heb 8

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
To be Cont: There are many.

Luke 2
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Luke 23
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
(That's kind of a big one if you think about it rationally)

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(Will not Gods Will be done?)

Galatians 3
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall >all< nations be blessed.

Lam 3
31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever:
32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.

Joel 2
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Psalm 22
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

Psalm 65
2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.
3 Iniquities prevail against me: as for our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away.

Psalm 66
4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.

Psalm 86
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

Psalm 145
21 My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.

Acts 3
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Gen 12
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Gen 18
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

Gen 28
14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.
Isaiah 25

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 26
9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isaiah 40
5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 45
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Isaiah 52
10 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Isaiah 57
16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Revelation 5
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

They are not talked about because Christians are special, and no one else is.

 

[Chuckyz2]

Where the bible says clear that all human will believe in Jesus Christ and be saved from John 3,16? How clear a verse must state, that without believing in Jesus Christ everybody is lost?.

It says it in the next verse
6 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
What that say brother is:
God loves the world. Not just some of it. Or it would say what part of it. "God so loved those that believed in the Son" It doesn't say that. If GOd sent the Son to save the world, you can bank on the world being saved.
Thank You for your reply.
But in your mind, does John 3:16 wash all the verses I posted that simply state all mankind are saved therefore negating removing them from the Bible or ignoring them as mistakes?
This thread is about the verses I posted and their definitions.
DO you have any comments about those verses and their definitions.
Do you deny what they say. You appear to not want to venture
that way. DId you even read them?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours
only but also for the whole world.

Does that help any? Not laughing. Scouts honor.

He is the propitiation for the whole world, not just for those who believe, but also for those who don't believe. But if people don't believe in that propitiation, they won't be saved, even though it is suficient to save them.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So you see,
He is the savior of the world but just part of the world? The part you want Him to save?

The part of the world that believes.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Then why are you here. You just admitted to being a troll. Why be rude. Why attack me in such a way?

I'm here because I'm here. Why is that a problem for you? Oh that's right, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Chuckyz2]

They are not talked about because Christians are special, and no one else is.

He is the propitiation for the whole world, not just for those who believe, but also for those who don't believe. But if people don't believe in that propitiation, they won't be saved, even though it is suficient to save them.

Propitiation is defined conciliate or reconcile.
Reunite?
He is the reuniting of all people back to the Father.
It says He "Is" Not He could be.
What it means when define is that He will reconcile all people.
What you want it to mean doesn't change what it actually says.
You would be better off claiming it is a mistaken translation.
But it isn't.
Hope this helps

 

[Chuckyz2]

I'm here because I'm here. Why is that a problem for you? Oh that's right, you don't know what you're talking about.

Well alrighty then! lol

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Propitiation is defined conciliate or reconcile.
Reunite?
He is the reuniting of all people back to the Father.
It says He "Is" Not He could be.
What it means when define is that He will reconcile all people.
What you want it to mean doesn't change what it actually says.
You would be better off claiming it is a mistaken translation.
But it isn't.
Hope this helps

People can't be reconciled if they don't believe in the sacrifice. Justification is via faith. No salvation without justification.

 

[Chuckyz2]

People can't be reconciled if they don't believe in the sacrifice. Justification is via faith. No salvation without justification.

But amongst the verses I posted are some that say every person will believe sooner or later. But sense you refuse to read the opening post.... Just saying. Pretty rude to comment on a thread without reading the actual OP. Just saying. Not laughing. very serious.
You are treating me harshly unjustly. That may be because you believe God is unjust. Casting His own children into the lake of fire when Has the power to make them perfect. Only Satan would do such a thing.

 

[Chuckyz2]

People can't be reconciled if they don't believe in the sacrifice. Justification is via faith. No salvation without justification.

My God loves all mankind. And promises everyone eternal life in paradise.
Your god casts most of his children into a fire that burns forever and promises eternal torture.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I know that a large majority of believers believe that most people get cast on judgment day.
I also know there are a lot more people that don't believe it but keep hush about it because
they know they will be shunned by their church and fellow Christians.
I am also aware that there are a few, and only a few verses in the Bible that can actually
appear to say it. But there are numerous verses that say all peoples are saved.
Why are they never discussed in Christian forums?
Here are some. In case anyone is interested in discussing them.

1. 1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of
the world. (Can this mean part of the world?)

Hello ChuckyZ2,

You are correct in that, God did give His one and only Son that [whosoever believes in Him] would not perish, but have everlasting life. So, the key to understanding this is the "whosoever believes in Him." Jesus shed His blood in payment for our sins. When a person believes that Jesus provided salvation for them, completely and fully, then that person is credited with righteousness and has been reconciled to God. If a person does not believe in Christ, then they remain in their sins and the wrath of God rests upon that individual.

An individual is saved by grace (unmerited favor) through faith. Therefore, it requires faith on our part. That said, you are presenting the scripture above as though a person is saved regardless of whether they have faith in Christ or not, which is false.

"Whoever has the Son has life. Whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life"

All of the scriptures that you have provided above, are all dependent upon the individual having faith. For scripture also states "Without faith it is impossible to please God."

The payment for sin that Christ provided is not a "get out of jail free card." Salvation requires faith from first to last. For example, none of the people involved in Islam, Hinduism, Buddhists, scientology, or any other false religious system will enter into eternal life and that because they are not trusting in Christ's sacrifice as payment for their sins. Only those who receive Christ and repent have salvation and the hope of eternal life, not just everyone regardless of their beliefs.

Revelation 5
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

The above means exactly what it says: all of creation, whether in heaven, on the earth or under the earth, will proclaim blessing, and honor and glory and power unto Him that sits on the throne and to the Lamb. Those "under the earth" is referring to those in Hades. Whether reconciled to God or those separated from God in Hades, all will glorify God, whether righteous or wicked, there be universal worship.

Therefore, the reason why they are not discussed in Christian forums, is because on those who believe in Christ as their Savior will be saved. It's not a blanket salvation, where no matter what an individual believes they're still saved.

 

[Ahwatukee]

But amongst the verses I posted are some that say every person will believe sooner or later. But sense you refuse to read the opening post.... Just saying. Pretty rude to comment on a thread without reading the actual OP. Just saying. Not laughing. very serious.
You are treating me harshly unjustly. That may be because you believe God is unjust. Casting His own children into the lake of fire when Has the power to make them perfect. Only Satan would do such a thing.

There is no scripture that states that everyone will be saved sooner or later! Otherwise, everlasting fire would have no meaning. Neither would the scripture which states that "whoever's name was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You're just misinterpreting those scriptures that you are attempting to use to prove your point. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Why do you think the wrath of God is coming upon this earth? It is to pour out His wrath upon a Christ rejecting world. If an individual dies without receiving Christ, that individuals record is sealed and like the rich man, will find his spirit down in Hades in torment waiting for the great white throne judgment.

By the way, not everyone is not a child of God, but only those who believe in His Son whom He sent, Jesus Christ. You're sounding like JW with this kind of teaching.

Regarding those who die in their sins, Jesus said the following: "Every idle word that men shall speak they shall give an account of on the day of judgment."

You really need to stop teaching these false teachings.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I know that a large majority of believers believe that most people get cast on judgment day.
I also know there are a lot more people that don't believe it but keep hush about it because
they know they will be shunned by their church and fellow Christians.
I am also aware that there are a few, and only a few verses in the Bible that can actually
appear to say it. But there are numerous verses that say all peoples are saved.
Why are they never discussed in Christian forums?
Here are some. In case anyone is interested in discussing them.

1. 1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of
the world. (Can this mean part of the world?)

2. 1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours
only but also for the whole world. (Never mind. I think this answered my question)

3. John 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.

4. John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

5. John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

6. John 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

7. Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour;that he
by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

8. Heb 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

9. 1 Tim 4:9-11
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer
reproach,because we trust in the living God,
who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that
believe.
11 These things command and teach. (wow. How can anyone question that?)

10. 1 Tim 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of
God our Savior;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto
the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in
due time.

Col 1
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile >all things< unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Col 1
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Rom 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience >many< were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall >many< be made righteous.
Rom 8
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
(Animals will be saved also. Thought Id throw that in there. : ) )

Romans 11
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (Pretty forth right, no?)

1 Cor 4
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

1 Cor 11
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Cor 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

2 Cor 5
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
Heb 8

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
To be Cont: There are many.

Luke 2
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Luke 23
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
(That's kind of a big one if you think about it rationally)

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(Will not Gods Will be done?)

Galatians 3
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall >all< nations be blessed.

Lam 3
31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever:
32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.

Joel 2
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Psalm 22
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

Psalm 65
2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.
3 Iniquities prevail against me: as for our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away.

Psalm 66
4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.

Psalm 86
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

Psalm 145
21 My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.

Acts 3
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Gen 12
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Gen 18
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

Gen 28
14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.
Isaiah 25

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 26
9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isaiah 40
5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 45
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Isaiah 52
10 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Isaiah 57
16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Revelation 5
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

It is very important to keep in mind when reading those scriptures that you provided above, that they are all dependent on the individual having faith.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

There is no scripture that states that everyone will be saved sooner or later! Otherwise, everlasting fire would have no meaning. Neither would the scripture which states that "whoever's name was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You're just misinterpreting those scriptures that you are attempting to use to prove your point. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Why do you think the wrath of God is coming upon this earth? It is to pour out His wrath upon a Christ rejecting world. If an individual dies without receiving Christ, that individuals record is sealed and like the rich man, will find his spirit down in Hades in torment waiting for the great white throne judgment.

By the way, not everyone is not a child of God, but only those who believe in His Son whom He sent, Jesus Christ. You're sounding like JW with this kind of teaching.

Regarding those who die in their sins, Jesus said the following: "Every idle word that men shall speak they shall give an account of on the day of judgment."

You really need to stop teaching these false teachings.

Amen! There is quite a movement toward that end here don't you think?

To the first part of your observation, if I may be the devil's advocate sort of speak in asking, doesn't the verse refer to the fire as everlasting? Not that everyone shall suffer everlasting torment in the fire?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Cont:

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a >great< multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of >great< tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
(please note, a great number that could not be counted came out of the great tribulation. The same great that went in, came out.)
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

This scripture above from Revelation 7:9-17 is John's vision of the saints who will be killed during the great tribulation period. These are those who will come to Christ after the church has been gathered and the during the time of the God's wrath. This group is not representing every individual on the planted, but only those who become believers during that time. During that time there will be people whose names were never written in the book of life before the world began and who will worship the beast and receive his mark - Rev.13:8 and 17:8. And the word of God tells us what happens to those who worship the beast and receive his mark:

"And a third angel followed them, calling in loud a voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name

Revelation 15
4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

The nations spoken of above, is referring to those great tribulation saints made up of all nations who make it through the time of God's wrath alive until Christ returns to the earth to end the age and will be allowed into the millennial kingdom. You're just terribly misinterpreting scripture.

Its not hard to see why most people believed Jesus claimed to be the savior of all men. At least up until the Romans times.
And after reading all these verses, how can one bash another for suggesting that the Bible might say salvation is for all people.

He's the Savior of all men who believe in Him, not those who continue in unbelief

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Maybe the confusion in this thread topic is the terms used.
No, there aren't Apostles today as we can read and through various biblical sources shared here. However, there are and can be Disciples.

Because before people who were followers or walkers of The Way were first called Christians in Antioch, they were referred to as Disciples.

What is the difference between a Christian and a disciple?

 

[Ahwatukee]

If I was God and my kid decided to go there, I would definitely think that my kid had a mental problem, Or some other issue. But being God who can do anything, and especially a loving merciful God, I would just heal that kid. It wouldn't even be questionable. Any God that would cast his own child into eternal punishment is a evil God. Period. Not gonna happen. : )
You really should think that through.

Now you truly sound like a JW! As I said, not everyone is a child of God. Only those who have faith in the Christ are the true children of God. By the way, once a person dies without Christ, their record is sealed. For those who have faith in Christ as the One who provided salvation for them, Christ was held accountable for their sins. For those who do not receive Christ, they will be held accountable for their own sins. All sin must be accounted for.