God sending People He made and loves to the lake of fire.

[Embankment]

In addition, It can be argued that that not one person was saved until Jesus died on the cross.
The criminal hanging with Jesus on the cross was the very first man to go to heaven.

 

[Chuckyz2]

No, I didn't. Waste of time. No spiritual discernment that I could see. Typical "I posted a lot of verses so I'm right" approach.

I actually put them up for discussion. And to show there is a lot of undeniable evidence to support "all peoples being saved."

 

[Acadia]

I guess that means all the scriptures I posted shouldn't be discussed?
Lol. Don't be scared. Jesus is going to save even the haters. Lol
Including JW's, Catholics, Universalists and even Muslims.
You are not part of an elite sect of special people that earned anything. Lol
All peoples are saved. It is simply stated over and over. Didn't you read the verses?

In other words, no one needs to do “the will of the Father” and believe on the Son.

I wonder what Jesus was talking about?

I also wonder why anyone would be willing to give their lives for the Gospel. If what you say is true, no one actually needs to hear it, so why bother?

Come on now.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you think the part that says, "of all men", would still qualify the Universalism allusion?

Consider also please this parallel translation reference LINKED

The word translated as all (in both Greek and Hebrew) doesn't of necessity mean every. So Paul wasn't saying that Christ will save all men (every man) , but that he is the savior of all particularly who believe.

 

[Chuckyz2]

In addition, It can be argued that that not one person was saved until Jesus died on the cross.
The criminal hanging with Jesus on the cross was the very first man to go to heaven.

You mean next to Jesus. But more interesting than that, is what Jesus said right before He died.
Forgive them Father. The know NOT what they do.
I wonder if God will honor the Sons request?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Let me give you an example. If this was your thread and you posted the above post I would examine you references.
The first Being Matt 10
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

It says He can. It doesn't say He will. But aside from that the word "hell" in that verse is used to define the grave, not the lake of fire.
Look it up.

I could go on with all your references but this is my thread. First acknowledge my verses so we can can see if there is a contradiction. Its not polite to ignore what I said then just rant off what you think should be looked at.
In fact, it is very rude.

chuck

this is a public forum

you can post from now until the last sunset

people gonna respond the way they want and you have no control over that

you posted in favor of universalism

I have not read one post that agrees with you on that

don't talk to me about rude dude...you are not in a position to call anyone rude by ignoring what people respond to you with

I have started a good number of threads and with the exception of maybe half a dozen or so, posts from people who just went off the deep end, I have no expectations that people are going to stroke my ego and be thankful that I finally 'englightened' them

kapish?

 

[glf1]

Hey! Chuck...

We're to take the full council of God not just your favorite verses, but all of them have to agree for one to be believing the truth. For example, lets take praying. We are to ask in Jesus' name. But also we are to ask in faith believing. We're to be like the widow with the unjust magistrate and wear the Lord down with the request. We to ask without asking amiss, for our own lusts. A clear conscience makes our prayers stronger as does fasting. So there is more to it that just asking in Jesus' name, even though some would insist that that is all it takes. And that's what you're doing with your pet verses that only address a facet of the truth. Because you don't really know what love and holiness are about and how they work together and set your mind above the full council of God.

Now how can I say this? No way to be gentle, really, so here goes. Your doctrine is of the devil and is perfect for teaching believers to cast their faith away as prophesied in 1 Tim 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" Which makes the following scripture to be about those who teach what you are teaching. Mt 18:16 "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depths of the sea. Jesus said, if your hand offend you; cut it off and cast it from you. For it is better to enter into life with one hand that having both hands and to be cast into fire that is never quenched. Do we believe you or do we believe Jesus? Kind of a no brainer!

 

[PennEd]

So you see,
He is the savior of the world but just part of the world? The part you want Him to save?

No. The part that accepts the Savior of the world.

If I say I have a cure for every disease in the form of a pill, and offer it free to whoever wants it, have I cured all disease in everybody, or just those that took the pill?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I guess that means all the scriptures I posted shouldn't be discussed?
Lol. Don't be scared. Jesus is going to save even the haters. Lol
Including JW's, Catholics, Universalists and even Muslims.
You are not part of an elite sect of special people that earned anything. Lol
All peoples are saved. It is simply stated over and over. Didn't you read the verses?

you don't know who you are talking to and your LOL's are getting really stale

all people are not saved

and you are a universalist if you say that all people are saved

 

[Chuckyz2]

In other words, no one needs to do “the will of the Father” and believe on the Son.

I wonder what Jesus was talking about?

I also wonder why anyone would be willing to give their lives for the Gospel. If what you say is true, no one actually needs to hear it, so why bother?

Come on now.

My testimony to that would be, I did not willingly choose to be abused. The Spirit compels me. When God calls, you answer. Im just a puppet with God pulling the strings.

It is odd though how you can see "partial world" when partial isn't there. Don't you think?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The word translated as all (in both Greek and Hebrew) doesn't of necessity mean every. So Paul wasn't saying that Christ will save all men (every man) , but that he is the savior of all particularly who believe.

For example, this verse says that all Israel stoned a fellow named Achan. Did every person in Israel throw a stone at him? That would have been impossible. So here we can see that all doesn't mean every.

And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. Joshua 7:25​

 

[Chuckyz2]

No. The part that accepts the Savior of the world.

If I say I have a cure for every disease in the form of a pill, and offer it free to whoever wants it, have I cured all disease in everybody, or just those that took the pill?

It doesn't come in the form of a pill. It will be spoken.

 

[Acadia]

My testimony to that would be, I did not willingly choose to be abused. The Spirit compels me. When God calls, you answer. Im just a puppet with God pulling the strings.

It is odd though how you can see "partial world" when partial isn't there. Don't you think?

Honestly, I can’t understand what point you’re trying to make in the above.

If you actually do seek honest discussion, please answer these questions:

If we’re all saved regardless of whether or not we hear and believe the Gospel, why share it with anyone as Scripture tells us we must?

If we are saved regardless of faith, why does Scripture say otherwise?

What is “the will of the Father”?

 

[Chuckyz2]

.

 

[notuptome]

Then why are you here. You just admitted to being a troll. Why be rude. Why attack me in such a way?

Why come here and in your first week post heresy?

If you die in your sins you will surely perish.

Jesus said except you be born again you cannot see the kingdom of God. You must be born again. You must be born again before you leave this life. The rich man in Luke 16 was told that those who were in his side of hades could not pass into the part describes as Abrahams bosom.

Jesus taught that unregenerate people go into outer darkness where there is weeping an wailing and gnashing of teeth. It says that the smoke of their torment

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PennEd]

It doesn't come in the form of a pill. It will be spoken.

The "pill" is confessing with your mouth Jesus Christ, and believing in you heart He rose to life on the 3rd day. I'm sure youd agree that many have not.
Then, it is appointed for men to die once and be judged.
You are really preaching a false GOSPEL.

 

[garee]

Not sure what you mean. How can I condense all those verses.
Just pick a few and tell me what you think they mean?
Pretty obvious the Bible says all peoples are saved when you actually sit down and read it.

Not if you follow it through to its conclusion . The phrase "as many" takes away all .The all in everything is restricted to as many as the father gives the Son. They alone will come (not might come) Those as many as all He will in no wise cast out

John 17:2as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him


John 6:37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[Chuckyz2]

you don't know who you are talking to and your LOL's are getting really stale

all people are not saved

and you are a universalist if you say that all people are saved

I'm rapidly learning about you, but no, I don't know you.
I'm not saying all peoples are saved. The scripture I posted is. If you want
to call me a universalist when I say I am not, that is on you. I'm sorry
but it's funny. Your inability to except elementary text as what it obviously
states is far more stale than a giggle. Here, let me post verse #2 that confirms
exactly what it says. Maybe the binders will be lifted.

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours
only but also for the whole world.

Does that help any? Not laughing. Scouts honor.

 

[RickyZ]

If I was God and my kid decided to go there, I would definitely think that my kid had a mental problem, Or some other issue. But being God who can do anything, and especially a loving merciful God, I would just heal that kid. It wouldn't even be questionable. Any God that would cast his own child into eternal punishment is a evil God. Period. Not gonna happen. : )
You really should think that through.

I don’t think God ‘sends’ anyone to 'hell'. Look at it this way. Suppose I built a resort for the homeless, and all I asked was that on their way in the door they acknowledge and thank me for doing so. “Hey man, I really appreciate you doing this” and you’re in the door. Tell me to kiss off, and you can go sit outside on the curb. Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit outside on the curb?

Too, what is hell? Our universe is made up at the subatomic level with clusters of like charged particles, which science tells us should naturally repel each other. They call the unknown factor that keeps it all from exploding "the strong force". There are several theories as to the source of this ‘strong force’, including God’s claim that He holds it all together. Now, on that theory, God claims He spoke it all into being out of nothingness - while science says out of nothingness, kaboom there it is. Are those really 2 different stories?

And then there’s dark matter/energy. Scientific estimates vary, but they hover around the theory that 90% of what makes up the universe, we can’t see, except for how it affects the things we can see. God says there is another realm that we can’t see, other than how it affects what we can see. And He wants His 10% back. Again, are these really unrelated?

God also says that someday He will speak this universe out of existence. Paul describes that moment, saying the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Think of what results when the atom is split – intense heat and fire.

Now, the interesting thing is, that we don’t see the lake of fire (hell) appear until right after this present earth and heavens are de-created.

Could it be that the de-creation of our world creates the lake of fire?

Could it be that God lets those who loved this world more than Him, have it in its natural state apart from Him?

God lets us choose. It’s the only way He can know if the love we give Him is real - by giving us the ability to choose not to.

 

[Chuckyz2]

Not if you follow it through to its conclusion . The phrase "as many" takes away all .The all in everything is restricted to as many as the father gives the Son. They alone will come (not might come) Those as many as all He will in no wise cast out

John 17:2as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him


John 6:37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Thank you for your reply.
He has given Him power over all.
As many as He has given Him power over(and it says all) that is how many.
All the Father has given Him(and it says all flesh. That is all people)
So it says, "He has given Him power over all flesh and all will come to Him and none of them will be cast."