God sending People He made and loves to the lake of fire.

[Chuckyz2]

And just for everyones information:
I an NOT a universalist. That word does not exist in my dictionary.
I am not a calvanist.
I am not a JW.
Never have been, never will be.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Not sure what you mean. How can I condense all those verses.
Just pick a few and tell me what you think they mean?
Pretty obvious the Bible says all peoples are saved when you actually sit down and read it.

I think Jesus meant what He said

but universalism is so appealing

Understanding 5: 3-8

 

[tourist]

And just for everyones information:
I an NOT a universalist. That word does not exist in my dictionary.
I am not a calvanist.
I am not a JW.
Never have been, never will be.

I am not a universalist either despite my many posts on salvation but it is only my hope and prayer that all are saved. I could support my views with pertinent bible verses but others could provide equally pertinent bible verses with an opposing view.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

And just for everyones information:
I an NOT a universalist. That word does not exist in my dictionary.
I am not a calvanist.
I am not a JW.
Never have been, never will be.

if you are saying everyone will be saved you ARE a universalist

that is what a universalist believes

that is WHY they are called a universalist

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck...it ain't an anteater

 

[peacefulbeliever]

If I was God and my kid decided to go there, I would definitely think that my kid had a mental problem, Or some other issue. But being God who can do anything, and especially a loving merciful God, I would just heal that kid. It wouldn't even be questionable. Any God that would cast his own child into eternal punishment is a evil God. Period. Not gonna happen. : )
You really should think that through.

Not everyone is God's kid . . . only those who have been born again of the Spirit and the only way to be born again of the Spirit and be saved from God's wrath is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead - then and only then is one a child of God.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

someone may not wish to be defined by a certain term, but if their beliefs line up with the tenets of that term, then they have redefined it whether they wish to or not

Universalism, the notion that we will all go to heaven, is re-entering the church with renewed vigor. Its proponents argue:

1. We are all created in the image of God (Gen. 1:26-27). God is love and would never subject any of His children to eternal punishment.

1. The idea that some are “in” and some are “out” is pharisaic and detestable. Instead, Jesus received all who came to Him and denounced the holier-than-thou spirit of pharisaism.

1. We are saved by grace. What right do we have to point the finger at others and exclude them from grace!

There are also the more secularized forms of these arguments:

1. We are all part of the same human family. We therefore should all enjoy the same rights and benefits. Exclusivity has no place in a modern and enlightened society. Instead, we need to work for inclusion.

1. It is sheer prejudice that claims that some humans are more deserving than others and therefore are entitled to more. This kind of prejudice should not be tolerated.

1. If God is loving, He would find a way to include all His creation.

SOURCE

Jesus taught more about eternal judgement than anyone else.

Although He received all who came to Him, He had His requirements, which determined inclusion and exclusion. He taught more on eternal judgment – the ultimate in inclusion and exclusion – than anyone else. Here are a few of these references just from the Gospel of Matthew: Matthew 10:28; 13:12-15; 13:30; 13:38-42; 13:49-50; 15:13; 16:26; 18:7-9; 18:34-35; 21:41; 21:44; 22:13; 23:33; 24:50-51; 25:30; 25:32-33; 25:41; 25:46; 26:24.

In this regards, Jesus’ warnings are consistent with the rest of Scripture. They give us a picture of a God who hates sin and self-righteousness. Jeremiah, a Prophet of Israel, is reflective of the rest of Scripture. He highlights why God is angry at His people Israel, who had rejected their God:

• They did not ask, ‘Where is the Lord, who brought us up out of Egypt…I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce…The priests did not ask, ‘Where is the Lord?’…The prophets prophesied by Baal, following worthless idols…see if there has ever been anything like this: Has a nation ever changed its gods?…But my people have exchanged their Glory for worthless idols…My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns [instead of the living waters], broken cisterns that cannot hold water. (Jeremiah 2:6-13)

God, and this includes Jesus, has always made distinctions regarding who is “in” and who is “out.” Clearly, those who reject Him are “out.” Although He pleads for their return, He will punish, but not proactively. Instead, He will allow Israel to be punished by their own choices. Eventually, after we continue to reject Him, He removes His protective hands from us, allowing us to freely pursue own desires (Romans 1:24, 26, 28):

• “Your wickedness will punish you; your backsliding will rebuke you. Consider then and realize how evil and bitter it is for you when you forsake the Lord your God and have no awe of me.” (Jeremiah 2:19)

Why does He want them to consider these things? So that they will turn away from their sins by acknowledging them – repent! But this is the very thing that Israel refuses to do. Instead, Israel erected cisterns of self-righteousness:

• [Israel] you say, ‘I am innocent; he is not angry with me.’ But I will pass judgment on you because you say, ‘I have not sinned.’” (Jeremiah 2:35)

Instead of sincerely acknowledging our sins, we justify them – an abomination in God’s sight (Luke 16:15). God never required His people to accomplish great feats of self-sacrifice to merit inclusion – just an acknowledgement of our sin before our Creator and Redeemer:

same source

 

[Embankment]

Jesus did indeed pay the price for all the worlds sins. That includes everyone.
However, not everyone agrees with Jesus and comes to him for forgiveness.

 

[Acadia]

If I was God and my kid decided to go there, I would definitely think that my kid had a mental problem, Or some other issue. But being God who can do anything, and especially a loving merciful God, I would just heal that kid. It wouldn't even be questionable. Any God that would cast his own child into eternal punishment is a evil God. Period. Not gonna happen. : )
You really should think that through.

God does not cast His children into eternal punishment. It is only born again believers that have received the “Spirit of adoption” and are children of God in Christ Jesus. This is made available for all, but not all will turn to Christ in faith.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

This may not be received as a popular observation however there are always certain topics that are guaranteed to repeat in Christ centered forums. Hell is no exception.
Firstly, "Brimstone", is a reference to sulfur. "fire and brimstone" is a description of sulfur burning.

I think one of the hardest things for new and even learned Christians to recognize when in the study of Exegesis is that God's own finger did not write the scriptures. Men did. Men influenced their writing and editing. And we know that over 40 authors compiled what is today's canon. As it arrived after the convening of numerous councils that voted on what texts were to be included in authorized scripture.

A fire hell after life has its origins largely in the writings of the Greek writer Plato. At the end of 2nd century Christianity was being introduced to Greek pagan mythology and some of that was then being cut into the Christian belief system. Hell fire is one example.

Jesus , Emmanuel, was born into a Jewish family. There is no fire and brimstone Hell in Judaism. If you ask a Jew today if they believe in Hell they'll answer, no.
Being removed from God's sight for all time is the fate of those not reunited with the sacred holy spirit God through faith in himself , Jesus the Christ.
Think of all the scriptures that tell us what can by synopsis as, God knew who would accept his free irrevocable gift of salvation before he created the world. He knew us by name so that the gospel would resonate as truth to us when we heard it. That's what it means when we're told Jesus called us by name as his sheep. He knows us and we know him.

If God knowing full well who would be saved and whom would not would choose to open the place of damnation he'd initially created for the angel he created to be what he is and was, Satan, and his fallen angel troop that followed Satan's lead in the war in Heaven , for humans, he would be a tyrant. He wants that none should not be saved but knowing full well who would not be because God foreordains every step of our life, arranged for a fire and brimstone suffering eternity in a bottomless pit, which makes one wonder where does the brimstone rest if there's no bottom, that's straight out of Greek myth.
That is not comporting with the omni-benevolence we know our God to be.
And when Sheol, the grave, was the afterlife for the OT Jews, it wouldn't be fitting that fire and brimstone would await the unbeliever after God fulfilled the prophecy he set forth in the OT for the New Testament unredeemed.
I think we have to discern where Paganism entered our teaching and hold fast to Christ.

The Origin of Hell Fire - Truth According To Scripture

I was browsing a forum once where this same topic was discussed. Someone posted two meme's that I'll share as one and concerning the proposal of eternal burning by God's ordinance.
Picture Jesus Christ: LOVE ME! OR I'll burn your soul for all eternity.
Ask to be saved..... FROM ME! (There were flames in the picture)

That's what Hellfire teaching postulates. That's not our Lord. That's Hades. The Greek god Hades. And Tartarus!

 

[Acadia]

There is not one place in the Bible that says one must believe before they die to inherit salvation. Everyone dies in their sin. Everyone is resurrected and made new and the same great number of people that go into the great tribulation come out praising God dressed in white washed by His blood. Are you familiar with that verse. Thanks for your reply.

Many many verses are clear that one must believe the Gospel to be born again and therefore saved.

It’s the “will of the Father” which is specifically written as being necessary for salvation.

 

[Chuckyz2]

I think Jesus meant what He said

but universalism is so appealing

Understanding 5: 3-8

I think I can see why you might have a hard time reviewing and excepting the simply stated.

 

[Chuckyz2]

"This may not be received as a popular."

You may want to start your own thread.
If you would like to discuss the verses and define the verses I posted. Im all ears.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I think I can see why you might have a hard time reviewing and excepting the simply stated.

oh no

it's just your renderings with surrounding fog bank that needs a light house

 

[Chuckyz2]

I am not a universalist either despite my many posts on salvation but it is only my hope and prayer that all are saved. I could support my views with pertinent bible verses but others could provide equally pertinent bible verses with an opposing view.

Then you would have a contradiction. But first one has to except the simplicity of the stated verses I posted which can not by anyone who speaks English, and any English scholar would agree as to what is simply being stated.
However all the verses that appear to contradict can have other meanings or be easily seen in more way than one. I think there is only one that stumped me. But there is nothing there that caontradicts itself when you take Jesus's words to heart. You most definitely will not find anything mouthed by the Lord. And if something anyone else brings what the Lord simply said into question, I choose to Follow Jesus and not man. But there is nothing. Fire away. I will show you.

 

[Chuckyz2]

oh no

it's just your renderings with surrounding fog bank that needs a light house

Not to be rude, but you are not contributing to the thread. Could you please stop.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Not to be rude, but you are not contributing to the thread. Could you please stop.

well chuck, that's just not so

you appear not to know why universalism is such a dangerous doctrine so I provided the following which you ignored. so here it is again.

nothing frivolous in this post. you simply ignored it that's all

someone may not wish to be defined by a certain term, but if their beliefs line up with the tenets of that term, then they have redefined it whether they wish to or not

Universalism, the notion that we will all go to heaven, is re-entering the church with renewed vigor. Its proponents argue:

1. We are all created in the image of God (Gen. 1:26-27). God is love and would never subject any of His children to eternal punishment.
2. The idea that some are “in” and some are “out” is pharisaic and detestable. Instead, Jesus received all who came to Him and denounced the holier-than-thou spirit of pharisaism.
3. We are saved by grace. What right do we have to point the finger at others and exclude them from grace!

There are also the more secularized forms of these arguments:

1. We are all part of the same human family. We therefore should all enjoy the same rights and benefits. Exclusivity has no place in a modern and enlightened society. Instead, we need to work for inclusion.
2. It is sheer prejudice that claims that some humans are more deserving than others and therefore are entitled to more. This kind of prejudice should not be tolerated.
3. If God is loving, He would find a way to include all His creation.

SOURCE

Jesus taught more about eternal judgement than anyone else.

Although He received all who came to Him, He had His requirements, which determined inclusion and exclusion. He taught more on eternal judgment – the ultimate in inclusion and exclusion – than anyone else. Here are a few of these references just from the Gospel of Matthew: Matthew 10:28; 13:12-15; 13:30; 13:38-42; 13:49-50; 15:13; 16:26; 18:7-9; 18:34-35; 21:41; 21:44; 22:13; 23:33; 24:50-51; 25:30; 25:32-33; 25:41; 25:46; 26:24.

In this regards, Jesus’ warnings are consistent with the rest of Scripture. They give us a picture of a God who hates sin and self-righteousness. Jeremiah, a Prophet of Israel, is reflective of the rest of Scripture. He highlights why God is angry at His people Israel, who had rejected their God:

• They did not ask, ‘Where is the Lord, who brought us up out of Egypt…I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce…The priests did not ask, ‘Where is the Lord?’…The prophets prophesied by Baal, following worthless idols…see if there has ever been anything like this: Has a nation ever changed its gods?…But my people have exchanged their Glory for worthless idols…My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns [instead of the living waters], broken cisterns that cannot hold water. (Jeremiah 2:6-13)

God, and this includes Jesus, has always made distinctions regarding who is “in” and who is “out.” Clearly, those who reject Him are “out.” Although He pleads for their return, He will punish, but not proactively. Instead, He will allow Israel to be punished by their own choices. Eventually, after we continue to reject Him, He removes His protective hands from us, allowing us to freely pursue own desires (Romans 1:24, 26, 28):

• “Your wickedness will punish you; your backsliding will rebuke you. Consider then and realize how evil and bitter it is for you when you forsake the Lord your God and have no awe of me.” (Jeremiah 2:19)

Why does He want them to consider these things? So that they will turn away from their sins by acknowledging them – repent! But this is the very thing that Israel refuses to do. Instead, Israel erected cisterns of self-righteousness:

• [Israel] you say, ‘I am innocent; he is not angry with me.’ But I will pass judgment on you because you say, ‘I have not sinned.’” (Jeremiah 2:35)

Instead of sincerely acknowledging our sins, we justify them – an abomination in God’s sight (Luke 16:15). God never required His people to accomplish great feats of self-sacrifice to merit inclusion – just an acknowledgement of our sin before our Creator and Redeemer:

same source

from my post 26 which you ignored and then made this comment because you obviously are a universalist who, it seems, wants to be called a Bible expositor

 

[Chuckyz2]

I remember when I first saw these verses. I was shocked. I looked hard at everyone and even used a dictionary when I needed to. It was very overwhelming. As they piled up and more and more were found it was obvious. Now getting someone to actually have a mature structured conversation about them has proved difficult. Lol. They just ignore for the most part. Lol

 

[Chuckyz2]

well chuck, that's just not so

you appear not to know why universalism is such a dangerous doctrine so I provided the following which you ignored. so here it is again.

nothing frivolous in this post. you simply ignored it that's all

someone may not wish to be defined by a certain term, but if their beliefs line up with the tenets of that term, then they have redefined it whether they wish to or not

Universalism, the notion that we will all go to heaven, is re-entering the church with renewed vigor. Its proponents argue:

1. We are all created in the image of God (Gen. 1:26-27). God is love and would never subject any of His children to eternal punishment.
2. The idea that some are “in” and some are “out” is pharisaic and detestable. Instead, Jesus received all who came to Him and denounced the holier-than-thou spirit of pharisaism.
3. We are saved by grace. What right do we have to point the finger at others and exclude them from grace!

There are also the more secularized forms of these arguments:

1. We are all part of the same human family. We therefore should all enjoy the same rights and benefits. Exclusivity has no place in a modern and enlightened society. Instead, we need to work for inclusion.
2. It is sheer prejudice that claims that some humans are more deserving than others and therefore are entitled to more. This kind of prejudice should not be tolerated.
3. If God is loving, He would find a way to include all His creation.

SOURCE

Jesus taught more about eternal judgement than anyone else.

Although He received all who came to Him, He had His requirements, which determined inclusion and exclusion. He taught more on eternal judgment – the ultimate in inclusion and exclusion – than anyone else. Here are a few of these references just from the Gospel of Matthew: Matthew 10:28; 13:12-15; 13:30; 13:38-42; 13:49-50; 15:13; 16:26; 18:7-9; 18:34-35; 21:41; 21:44; 22:13; 23:33; 24:50-51; 25:30; 25:32-33; 25:41; 25:46; 26:24.

In this regards, Jesus’ warnings are consistent with the rest of Scripture. They give us a picture of a God who hates sin and self-righteousness. Jeremiah, a Prophet of Israel, is reflective of the rest of Scripture. He highlights why God is angry at His people Israel, who had rejected their God:

• They did not ask, ‘Where is the Lord, who brought us up out of Egypt…I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce…The priests did not ask, ‘Where is the Lord?’…The prophets prophesied by Baal, following worthless idols…see if there has ever been anything like this: Has a nation ever changed its gods?…But my people have exchanged their Glory for worthless idols…My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns [instead of the living waters], broken cisterns that cannot hold water. (Jeremiah 2:6-13)

God, and this includes Jesus, has always made distinctions regarding who is “in” and who is “out.” Clearly, those who reject Him are “out.” Although He pleads for their return, He will punish, but not proactively. Instead, He will allow Israel to be punished by their own choices. Eventually, after we continue to reject Him, He removes His protective hands from us, allowing us to freely pursue own desires (Romans 1:24, 26, 28):

• “Your wickedness will punish you; your backsliding will rebuke you. Consider then and realize how evil and bitter it is for you when you forsake the Lord your God and have no awe of me.” (Jeremiah 2:19)

Why does He want them to consider these things? So that they will turn away from their sins by acknowledging them – repent! But this is the very thing that Israel refuses to do. Instead, Israel erected cisterns of self-righteousness:

• [Israel] you say, ‘I am innocent; he is not angry with me.’ But I will pass judgment on you because you say, ‘I have not sinned.’” (Jeremiah 2:35)

Instead of sincerely acknowledging our sins, we justify them – an abomination in God’s sight (Luke 16:15). God never required His people to accomplish great feats of self-sacrifice to merit inclusion – just an acknowledgement of our sin before our Creator and Redeemer:

same source

from my post 26 which you ignored and then made this comment because you obviously are a universalist who, it seems, wants to be called a Bible expositor

You are rebutting without discussing the verses I posted. Pick a few and lets talk about the subject. If you want to start a new thread on universalism, go ahead. Im not a universalist. That word does not exist in my dictionary.
This thread is about the simply stated verses that say all mankind is saved. DO you concede that is what they say or not. If not can you break down how I mis understand the wording?

 

[Acadia]

I remember when I first saw these verses. I was shocked. I looked hard at everyone and even used a dictionary when I needed to. It was very overwhelming. As they piled up and more and more were found it was obvious. Now getting someone to actually have a mature structured conversation about them has proved difficult. Lol. They just ignore for the most part. Lol

Why share the Gospel with anyone if no one needs to believe to be saved? Why is faith clearly so important according to Scripture?

Honest questions.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

And just for everyones information:
I an NOT a universalist. That word does not exist in my dictionary.
I am not a calvanist.
I am not a JW.
Never have been, never will be.

Do you find it surprising you have to say that in order not to be accused?
What often upholds the Universalism platform is Paul's letter to Timothy that says, This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance. 10To this end we labor and strive,because we have set our hope on the living God,who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. 11Command and teach these things.
That passage in 1 Timothy 4 can be defended as Paul himself teaching Universalism.