My fiance doesn't believe in the Trinity

[Enoch987]

In Isaiah 7-10 and Jeremiah 50-51, the Godhead is LORD God of hosts, LORD of hosts and the Holy One of Israel.
LORD is English for YHWH.
2 Corininthians 5:19. God was in Jesus reconciling the world to himself.
Those that say God did the work of our salvation (true, we only need to believe and confess) so Jesus was God (true but not exactly accurate according to this verse which they would prefer to say "Jesus was God reconciling the world to himself."
The Athanasian Creed ends with unless you believe these things, you cannot be saved.
The prideful statement of exclusion filters down through the history of the church.
What is wrong with the Creed?
The phrase "eternally begotten" takes away from begotten as a human.
The Creed was written as an argument against Arius who taught that Jesus did not exist until he was begotten as a human.
Another phrase, Jesus was "not man changing into God but God into man," while keeping all of his divine attributes while adding human attributes that are limited and finite, keeping both natures separate but in union (Arius argued for one human nature).
Conclusion, Jesus always had his divine attributes.
The gospel of John agrees. Jesus' night of doubt and confusion in the garden of Gethsemane makes no sense to John so it becomes the garden across the Kidron Valley where Jesus was arrested (18:1)

 

[GodisONE]

when we think about the WORD, look at it like this...when Yahweh speaks a command...it's His WORD that does the ACTION (like creation). SO, when the WORD became FLESH [Yeshua said in John 14 I am not doing these things but the Father INSIDE ME is doing them] (or another words) Yahweh speaks and Yeshua Yahweh's WORD that became flesh is DOING THE ACTION. this makes them THE SAME BEING.

it is why Paul in Colossians claimed Yeshua is the VISIBLE IMAGE to the INVISIBLE GOD...because...the INVISIBLE GOD SPEAKS...the WORD who is the visible flesh DOES THE ACTION.

 

[theanointedsinner]

just because you don't understand something doesn't mean that you shouldn't believe it

for example, if proper understanding of quantum physics takes 3 formal years to understand,

or

if fermat's last theorem takes 200 pages for Andrew Wides to prove it, does that mean that the fermat's last theorem is fake?

or, the trinity, just because we don't understand it, ...

well anyway, read John 1:1-2

 

[GodisONE]

when we think about the WORD, look at it like this...when Yahweh speaks a command...it's His WORD that does the ACTION (like creation). SO, when the WORD became FLESH [Yeshua said in John 14 I am not doing these things but the Father INSIDE ME is doing them] (or another words) Yahweh speaks and Yeshua Yahweh's WORD that became flesh is DOING THE ACTION. this makes them THE SAME BEING.

it is why Paul in Colossians claimed Yeshua is the VISIBLE IMAGE to the INVISIBLE GOD...because...the INVISIBLE GOD SPEAKS...the WORD who is the visible flesh DOES THE ACTION.

I do not LIMIT GOD like trinitarians do, to begin with. when I understand that God is omnipresent and CAN DO ALL THINGS, I understand that the WORD means something SPOKEN. and like myself when I speak on my job, my word is a command for those under me to do the ACTION. but in this sense, I understand Yahweh speaks and His WORD [Yeshua] does what is told (action).

and Yeshua proved this in John 14 when He said, the things I do and say are NOT MY OWN words and doing, but the Father who lives inside me is doing. this is as clear as it gets that YAHWEH speaks and His WORD [Yeshua] does what is spoken.

now, are my words and myself the SAME or different?
they are the SAME.

just like Yahweh and His WORD [Yeshua] are the SAME!! it's just as God, Yahweh made His own WORD to be flesh to die for us and to give us an example how we are to live as believers!!

 

[renewed_hope]

Hello everyone

My fiance and I have known each other for 6 years, have been dating for 3 years, and have been engaged for 4 months.

I've always known that she doesn't believe in the Trinity. Despite that, I've always believed that she is the woman I'm meant to be with. I have prayed countless times for God to take her away from me if she is not the right woman for me, and He hasn't! Our relationship is pretty perfect really, but there's just this one issue that bothers me.

She identifies as a Christian, and I believe that she is a Christian. She just believes that based on an unbiased, straight-forward reading of the bible, there is nothing to prove that Jesus is God. She also can't see how Jesus praying to God in the Garden of Gethsemane makes any sense at all. I've showed her all the bible verses that we rely upon in defense of the Trinity, but she doesn't think they make a strong enough case in favour of it. In fairness to her, there are no unambiguous bible verses that clearly spell out the Trinity; rather it is a combination of verses that we use to understand the Trinity. I've showed her John 1:1, but she just doesn't see it.

She and I have had many many many conversations about this, and has told me that she will probably never change her mind about it. She has also asked that I stop trying to change her mind about it. I have told her in no uncertain terms that I will be talking to her about this for the rest of her life.

She grew up as a Mormon - but renounced Mormonism long before I met her. This is probably where her views come from. But herein lies the problem. She knows that from childhood she was fooled into believing the lies of Mormonism. She is now (understandably) extremely reluctant to simply believe things just because a lot of people say its true. So its not going to be easy to help her to understand the truth.

What should I do here? How do I help her to see the truth?

Oh and not marrying her is not an option. She is far more likely to find the truth with me than without me, in my estimation.

Thank you

With all due respect, I firmly believe the trinity is extremely important to our faith and when you meet someone who doesn't believe in it, then it is problematic. Yes, you love her and feel that it is your responsibility to teach her who God is and he is the Trinity...yet she is firm with you when she says she doesn't believe in it or never will is a troubling thought. I whole heartedly believe that if you truly love someone you have to risk letting her go especially when you clash on your spiritual belief.

My personal opinion is that you should have never proposed marriage with this HUGE difference of religious belief in the first place. You should also end the relationship before you spend too much time, money, and emotions into a wedding. You both deserve people that you don't want to change and ones that will make you happy.

 

[GodisONE]

the WORD.
what is being referenced here by the term WORD?
something spoken.

when you talk, you speak words.

so, we know the WORD is something spoken. and in the Bible, the WORD is God speaking.

does the WORD becoming flesh suddenly separates itself from the speaker [God]?
no

the WORD is an extension of GOD, not something separate.

 

[Avalon1]

Maybe ask her to provide a verse that disproves the trinity, she won't be able to find any hehe.

 

[CS1]

Hello everyone

My fiance and I have known each other for 6 years, have been dating for 3 years, and have been engaged for 4 months.

I've always known that she doesn't believe in the Trinity. Despite that, I've always believed that she is the woman I'm meant to be with. I have prayed countless times for God to take her away from me if she is not the right woman for me, and He hasn't! Our relationship is pretty perfect really, but there's just this one issue that bothers me.

She identifies as a Christian, and I believe that she is a Christian. She just believes that based on an unbiased, straight-forward reading of the bible, there is nothing to prove that Jesus is God. She also can't see how Jesus praying to God in the Garden of Gethsemane makes any sense at all. I've showed her all the bible verses that we rely upon in defense of the Trinity, but she doesn't think they make a strong enough case in favour of it. In fairness to her, there are no unambiguous bible verses that clearly spell out the Trinity; rather it is a combination of verses that we use to understand the Trinity. I've showed her John 1:1, but she just doesn't see it.

She and I have had many many many conversations about this, and has told me that she will probably never change her mind about it. She has also asked that I stop trying to change her mind about it. I have told her in no uncertain terms that I will be talking to her about this for the rest of her life.

She grew up as a Mormon - but renounced Mormonism long before I met her. This is probably where her views come from. But herein lies the problem. She knows that from childhood she was fooled into believing the lies of Mormonism. She is now (understandably) extremely reluctant to simply believe things just because a lot of people say its true. So its not going to be easy to help her to understand the truth.

What should I do here? How do I help her to see the truth?

Oh and not marrying her is not an option. She is far more likely to find the truth with me than without me, in my estimation.

Thank you

pray for her do not try to change her let the Holy Spirit reveal Who HE is to her. This is spiritually discerned . Yet we all are limited in our understanding . You show her Jesus and Let the Holy Spirit show her the Godhead

 

[renewed_hope]

pray for her do not try to change her let the Holy Spirit reveal Who HE is to her. This is spiritually discerned . Yet we all are limited in our understanding . You show her Jesus and Let the Holy Spirit show her the Godhead

Beautifully written

 

[trofimus]

the WORD.
what is being referenced here by the term WORD?
something spoken.

when you talk, you speak words.

so, we know the WORD is something spoken. and in the Bible, the WORD is God speaking.

does the WORD becoming flesh suddenly separates itself from the speaker [God]?
no

the WORD is an extension of GOD, not something separate.

You are building too much on the English translation - "Word".

In Greek, its "Logos" and in Greek culture this term had specific philosophical meanings and context. Logos was a being emerging from God, its not a word in a grammatical sense.

J 1:1 is using this philosophical context and saying - this (ho) Logos is Jesus Christ. The Logos became flesh and lived among us.

It has very little or nothing with "speaking". Also, nobody says that Son is separated from Father, they are one, creating unity.

 

[Demi777]

Donz force your belief on her and pray for her

 

[GodisONE]

You are building too much on the English translation - "Word".

In Greek, its "Logos" and in Greek culture this term had specific philosophical meanings and context. Logos was a being emerging from God, its not a word in a grammatical sense.

J 1:1 is using this philosophical context and saying - this (ho) Logos is Jesus Christ. The Logos became flesh and lived among us.

It has very little or nothing with "speaking". Also, nobody says that Son is separated from Father, they are one, creating unity.

still is an example of what I am saying here.

the word logos means: the Word of God, or principle of divine reason and creative order.

this is specific to how I am using it.
Yeshua is the creation of God's spoken WORD.
God speaks and His WORD creates what is commanded.

either way, God and His spoken WORD are still ONE and the SAME PERSON!!

I cannot speak and my words not be my own, just like God cannot speak and His WORD not be His own!!


***you do realize John was written in Aramaic, koine Greek, and Latin?***

 

[trofimus]

still is an example of what I am saying here.

the word logos means: the Word of God, or principle of divine reason and creative order.

this is specific to how I am using it.
Yeshua is the creation of God's spoken WORD.
God speaks and His WORD creates what is commanded.

either way, God and His spoken WORD are still ONE and the SAME PERSON!!

I cannot speak and my words not be my own, just like God cannot speak and His WORD not be His own!!

Jesus is not a thing, He is a person. A person talking to Father, praying to Father, coming from Father and again returning to Father and sitting with Him on the throne.

***you do realize John was written in Aramaic, koine Greek, and Latin?***

No, I do not. I realize that the gospel of John was written in Greek, though.

 

[GodisONE]

Jesus is not a thing, He is a person. A person talking to Father, praying to Father, coming from Father and again returning to Father and sitting with Him on the throne.



No, I do not. I realize that the gospel of John was written in Greek, though.

Yeshua is God's spoken WORD. even LOGOS explains this. it means EXTENSION. God literally made His WORD flesh. and as He spoke, His WORD did what was spoken.

once again, what you say [your words] are not different/separate from you. your words are you.

this is the same with God and His WORD. they are ONE and the SAME.

are you actually ignoring that Yeshua said the Father is directing me, not me making my own decisions [God speaking and His WORD obeying]?

are you actually ignoring Colossians 1:15
He [Yeshua] is the VISIBLE (image) to the INVISIBLE God...which is from Yeshua's OWN WORDS = when you SEE ME you SEE the FATHER, when you SEE the FATHER, you SEE ME?


it's as if you are picking and choosing scripture and ignoring the fact that Yeshua told us He is the action obeying the command = God speaks and His WORD obeys!!

 

[CS1]

Yeshua is God's spoken WORD. even LOGOS explains this. it means EXTENSION. God literally made His WORD flesh. and as He spoke, His WORD did what was spoken.

once again, what you say [your words] are not different/separate from you. your words are you.

this is the same with God and His WORD. they are ONE and the SAME.

are you actually ignoring that Yeshua said the Father is directing me, not me making my own decisions [God speaking and His WORD obeying]?

are you actually ignoring Colossians 1:15
He [Yeshua] is the VISIBLE (image) to the INVISIBLE God...which is from Yeshua's OWN WORDS = when you SEE ME you SEE the FATHER, when you SEE the FATHER, you SEE ME?


it's as if you are picking and choosing scripture and ignoring the fact that Yeshua told us He is the action obeying the command = God speaks and His WORD obeys!!

Jesus is God Jesus is Lord . You are legalistic in your theology too. This is why you write Yeshua over writing " Jesus ".

 

[GodisONE]

Jesus is God Jesus is Lord . You are legalistic in your theology too. This is why you write Yeshua over writing " Jesus ".

the Jews of that day DID NOT call Him Jesus, they called Him Yeshua. if that is what He was known by while on earth, why not then call Him by His actual name?

in fact, Peter and John told the beggar, silver and gold have I none, but such as I have I give thee, arise in the NAME of YESHUA of Nazareth.

demons clearly know His real NAME.
Satan the adversary knows His real NAME.
so why not battle them by using His real NAME?

after all, it is His real NAME!!


Yahweh/Yeshua both are correct names of God beginning with the letter Y.

 

[trofimus]

the Jews of that day DID NOT call Him Jesus, they called Him Yeshua. if that is what He was known by while on earth, why not then call Him by His actual name?

in fact, Peter and John told the beggar, silver and gold have I none, but such as I have I give thee, arise in the NAME of YESHUA of Nazareth.

demons clearly know His real NAME.
Satan the adversary knows His real NAME.
so why not battle them by using His real NAME?

after all, it is His real NAME!!


Yahweh/Yeshua both are correct names of God beginning with the letter Y.

If you cannot find "Yeshua" nowhere in the New Testament, why do you accomodate yourself to how Jews called Him.

Jesus is not a spoken word. Jesus is Logos, a one-born person, born by His Father. The term "word" in John 1 is not about spoken, written, lexical word, thats what I am trying to tell you. It has a different meaning.

 

[GodisONE]

If you cannot find "Yeshua" nowhere in the New Testament, why do you accomodate yourself to how Jews called Him.

Jesus is not a spoken word. Jesus is Logos, a one-born person, born by His Father. The term "word" in John 1 is not about spoken, written, lexical word, thats what I am trying to tell you. It has a different meaning.

Yeshua is all over the New Testament in the CJB version. it's the authentic Jewish translation of both the Old and New Testaments. every scripture in the KJV that state Jesus, states Yeshua in the CJB. I did mention to you the Gospels were written in Aramaic, and then in Greek and Latin!!

in fact, the CJB has everyone's AUTHENTIC NAME as it is spoken in Hebrew/Yiddish.

Matthew 1 is the lineage record. here is verse 21...

21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means `ADONAI saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."



here is the famous John 8:58 where Yeshua states He is before Abraham because He is I AM...notice Abrahams name in the Hebrew/Yiddish:

58 Yeshua said to them, "Yes, indeed! Before Avraham came into being, I AM!"



here is the famous ONENESS BAPTISM VERSE from Peter in Acts 2:38. notice what the gift of the Holy Spirit is called in the Hebrew/Yiddish:

38 Kefa answered them, "Turn from sin, return to God, and each of you be immersed on the authority of Yeshua the Messiah into forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh!





I much rather know their real names. because in heaven, we won't call them by their translated names!!

 

[trofimus]

Yeshua is all over the New Testament in the CJB version. it's the authentic Jewish translation of both the Old and New Testaments. every scripture in the KJV that state Jesus, states Yeshua in the CJB. I did mention to you the Gospels were written in Aramaic, and then in Greek and Latin!!

in fact, the CJB has everyone's AUTHENTIC NAME as it is spoken in Hebrew/Yiddish.

Matthew 1 is the lineage record. here is verse 21...

21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means `ADONAI saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."



here is the famous John 8:58 where Yeshua states He is before Abraham because He is I AM...notice Abrahams name in the Hebrew/Yiddish:

58 Yeshua said to them, "Yes, indeed! Before Avraham came into being, I AM!"



here is the famous ONENESS BAPTISM VERSE from Peter in Acts 2:38. notice what the gift of the Holy Spirit is called in the Hebrew/Yiddish:

38 Kefa answered them, "Turn from sin, return to God, and each of you be immersed on the authority of Yeshua the Messiah into forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh!





I much rather know their real names. because in heaven, we won't call them by their translated names!!

The New Testament was inspired in Greek and the name for Jesus is Iesous there.

Therefore, there is no need to use Hebrew names, when even apostles did not see the need of it.

 

[GodisONE]

The New Testament was inspired in Greek and the name for Jesus is Iesous there.

Therefore, there is no need to use Hebrew names, when even apostles did not see the need of it.

I see, so people who are Jewish would have never used their native language?

you crack me up.

the Gospels were ORIGINALLY written in Aramaic before Greek and Latin.

do you know that Aramaic is made up of mostly the Hebrew/Yiddish language.

no wonder you are lost in scripture!!