Some people just aren't good.......

[Protek]

I have been naive my entire life and treat everyone with good will, even one of the kids from our group in elementary school who hated me I was nice to him and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I don't have a hostile bone in my body and sure I got extremely angry at people who may have bullied me but I never knew how to handle it. I mention all of this because it shows that even as a kid, I didn't know how to understand the idea of someone that just isn't a good person.

What brings this subject up would be the other day while working with my father, I came out of the 7-11 earlier than he did and some lady was there pacing back and forth, she quickly commented with "excuse me sir, you wouldn't happen to have a smoke I could get?", I responded no I quit years ago. My hands were full and before I could open the door she said here let me help you with that and while putting stuff in the car she stood right there and asked for some spare change along the lines of she's out of gas and out of smokes etc etc. I said sure and pulled out my wallet with a 5 and two 1's outside of it, I almost gave her the ones then chose to give her the 5 and as I was putting my wallet away she asked if she could have the ones as well. Being an introvert I said sure and gave it to her. I don't care about the two dollars, it's the fact that she put me on the spot to where I had to look like a jerk and keep my money.

This is a very small example and almost meaningless but it got me thinking about how such a thing is completely foreign to me. I mean, I'm sure she is in a place of need and while I've never been in that situation........... it's just her mindset of "well what else can I get out of him" rather than being thankful.

I have sat and talked with homeless people on a number of occasions and have given money to them on several occasions. Just a month ago I sat down with one guy outside of a liquor store because he looked troubled and was sitting by my car. Turn's out he has Parkinson's and having been a tradesman he couldn't make a living any more and lost his job wife family etc. We talked for a while and he just wanted the company, I told him my story and it was a great interaction. He didn't want to use me but wanted a little fellowship. I took a couple cigarettes out of the pack I just bought and gave him the rest of it and gave him ten bucks and said, get something to drink and have a good night. He couldn't be more thankful. (homeless and alcohol is a different topic)

The difference between the two is one saw me as a blessing, the other saw me as a sucker she could con.

This whole concept is one I've been working on as I've been trying to understand how a very important friend from my past is just a piece of garbage. I'd known him since 6 years old and I know his whole story and I love him like a brother. To then say, yeah he's kind of a piece of garbage is where I'm hung up. I wish the best for him but he is a con man and views everyone around him as an asset, he blows up peoples lives left and right (including mine) and he has 5 kids with two women all while being semi-homeless. The past few years I'd only talk to him once or twice a year on the phone and the vile hatred that spewed from his mouth......... I had to tell him I was done. Somehow I still love him and pray for him, but also myself to understand that he has literally no place in my life even if in the smallest way possible.

 

[tourist]

I have been naive my entire life and treat everyone with good will, even one of the kids from our group in elementary school who hated me I was nice to him and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I don't have a hostile bone in my body and sure I got extremely angry at people who may have bullied me but I never knew how to handle it. I mention all of this because it shows that even as a kid, I didn't know how to understand the idea of someone that just isn't a good person.

What brings this subject up would be the other day while working with my father, I came out of the 7-11 earlier than he did and some lady was there pacing back and forth, she quickly commented with "excuse me sir, you wouldn't happen to have a smoke I could get?", I responded no I quit years ago. My hands were full and before I could open the door she said here let me help you with that and while putting stuff in the car she stood right there and asked for some spare change along the lines of she's out of gas and out of smokes etc etc. I said sure and pulled out my wallet with a 5 and two 1's outside of it, I almost gave her the ones then chose to give her the 5 and as I was putting my wallet away she asked if she could have the ones as well. Being an introvert I said sure and gave it to her. I don't care about the two dollars, it's the fact that she put me on the spot to where I had to look like a jerk and keep my money.

This is a very small example and almost meaningless but it got me thinking about how such a thing is completely foreign to me. I mean, I'm sure she is in a place of need and while I've never been in that situation........... it's just her mindset of "well what else can I get out of him" rather than being thankful.

I have sat and talked with homeless people on a number of occasions and have given money to them on several occasions. Just a month ago I sat down with one guy outside of a liquor store because he looked troubled and was sitting by my car. Turn's out he has Parkinson's and having been a tradesman he couldn't make a living any more and lost his job wife family etc. We talked for a while and he just wanted the company, I told him my story and it was a great interaction. He didn't want to use me but wanted a little fellowship. I took a couple cigarettes out of the pack I just bought and gave him the rest of it and gave him ten bucks and said, get something to drink and have a good night. He couldn't be more thankful. (homeless and alcohol is a different topic)

The difference between the two is one saw me as a blessing, the other saw me as a sucker she could con.

This whole concept is one I've been working on as I've been trying to understand how a very important friend from my past is just a piece of garbage. I'd known him since 6 years old and I know his whole story and I love him like a brother. To then say, yeah he's kind of a piece of garbage is where I'm hung up. I wish the best for him but he is a con man and views everyone around him as an asset, he blows up peoples lives left and right (including mine) and he has 5 kids with two women all while being semi-homeless. The past few years I'd only talk to him once or twice a year on the phone and the vile hatred that spewed from his mouth......... I had to tell him I was done. Somehow I still love him and pray for him, but also myself to understand that he has literally no place in my life even if in the smallest way possible.

In 1972, in Los Angeles I gave a kid $5. He said that wasn't enough and that he wanted all of my money. I told him what I thought of that idea and he threatened to cut me with a knife. I told him to bring in on, he got scared and said he was coming back for me with his brother. I told him that I would be waiting. Of course, I left. Hope that he didn't end up prison or dead.

 

[preacher4truth]

I have been naive my entire life and treat everyone with good will, even one of the kids from our group in elementary school who hated me I was nice to him and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I don't have a hostile bone in my body and sure I got extremely angry at people who may have bullied me but I never knew how to handle it. I mention all of this because it shows that even as a kid, I didn't know how to understand the idea of someone that just isn't a good person.

What brings this subject up would be the other day while working with my father, I came out of the 7-11 earlier than he did and some lady was there pacing back and forth, she quickly commented with "excuse me sir, you wouldn't happen to have a smoke I could get?", I responded no I quit years ago. My hands were full and before I could open the door she said here let me help you with that and while putting stuff in the car she stood right there and asked for some spare change along the lines of she's out of gas and out of smokes etc etc. I said sure and pulled out my wallet with a 5 and two 1's outside of it, I almost gave her the ones then chose to give her the 5 and as I was putting my wallet away she asked if she could have the ones as well. Being an introvert I said sure and gave it to her. I don't care about the two dollars, it's the fact that she put me on the spot to where I had to look like a jerk and keep my money.

This is a very small example and almost meaningless but it got me thinking about how such a thing is completely foreign to me. I mean, I'm sure she is in a place of need and while I've never been in that situation........... it's just her mindset of "well what else can I get out of him" rather than being thankful.

I have sat and talked with homeless people on a number of occasions and have given money to them on several occasions. Just a month ago I sat down with one guy outside of a liquor store because he looked troubled and was sitting by my car. Turn's out he has Parkinson's and having been a tradesman he couldn't make a living any more and lost his job wife family etc. We talked for a while and he just wanted the company, I told him my story and it was a great interaction. He didn't want to use me but wanted a little fellowship. I took a couple cigarettes out of the pack I just bought and gave him the rest of it and gave him ten bucks and said, get something to drink and have a good night. He couldn't be more thankful. (homeless and alcohol is a different topic)

The difference between the two is one saw me as a blessing, the other saw me as a sucker she could con.

This whole concept is one I've been working on as I've been trying to understand how a very important friend from my past is just a piece of garbage. I'd known him since 6 years old and I know his whole story and I love him like a brother. To then say, yeah he's kind of a piece of garbage is where I'm hung up. I wish the best for him but he is a con man and views everyone around him as an asset, he blows up peoples lives left and right (including mine) and he has 5 kids with two women all while being semi-homeless. The past few years I'd only talk to him once or twice a year on the phone and the vile hatred that spewed from his mouth......... I had to tell him I was done. Somehow I still love him and pray for him, but also myself to understand that he has literally no place in my life even if in the smallest way possible.

Remember the 10 lepers that were healed? Only one came back to thank Christ; Luke 17:11-19.

First, you cannot change the attitudes of others, but here is the one you should adopt concerning yourself; Luke 17:10.

One last thing, you speak of people being good or bad, and of yourself as good. Put it in Biblical perspective; there is only one good (note Luke 18:19). That means I'm not good, others aren't good, and, you're not good.

 

[oldethennew]

this 'story' is a very great 'tell', not about them' so much, but about ourselves, even though we do get a bead on them to
some degree...

it's all about 'listening to The Holy Spirit', if we claim to be a 'Christian',,, a growing process, if you will',
and one that can only enhance our growth in our Holy Saviour...

 

[Protek]

Remember the 10 lepers that were healed? Only one came back to thank Christ; Luke 17:11-19.

First, you cannot change the attitudes of others, but here is the one you should adopt concerning yourself; Luke 17:10.

One last thing, you speak of people being good or bad, and of yourself as good. Put it in Biblical perspective; there is only one good (note Luke 18:19). That means I'm not good, others aren't good, and, you're not good.

Thank you for that reminder. The problem I'm having though is that I view everyone as good at a cost to myself. In fact I have dedicated years of my life to one person in particular who was indeed a good person, yet it was 100% a one way street. At the time I saw it as god's work by helping someone who could literally do nothing for me in return, and that was probably the case. However I'm trying to find a new outlook on life so I don't get roped in to a toxic relationship by some woman. That's the next phase of my life is getting out there and meet some women with the hopes of marrying one.

I'm just such a door mat that I don't want to marry the wrong person or get caught up in a long term relationship with a user. My grandma was a door mat her entire life to a husband that was a recovered alcoholic, the last few years he was alive she finally stood up for herself and since he has passed she is working on being independent. Don't get me wrong I loved my grandpa dearly and there was nothing extreme going on, just typical drama.

 

[Ugly]

There's wisdom in balancing your view on people. There's nothing wrong with your default view. The balance is in acknowledging that there's a chance not all are good. Keeping that simple concept in mind can help a lot.
So continue believing in the good of people, but that doesn't mean you have to pretend there are bad people as well.

And your giving that woman your two dollars has nothing to do with being introverted and everything to do with your being passive.
It seems you have a misunderstanding on what introversion is.

 

[Deade]

I have a lot of experience in California ghettos (L.A. & Oakland) and realize what goes on with some homeless. Being found that way a couple of times while serving the Lord. I have learned quite a bit about human nature.

Most homeless belong in mental institutions or drunk tanks (special cells in jail). There are a very small minority of people that I could say they loved the darkness because their deeds were evil. Those are the recluses by choice, but there are many others that are by chance. Given the opportunity the second ones would be quite social.

What I am trying to say is let's not judge a person by their circumstance. Circumstance can also make a person bitter and seem evil when really there is slight mental things going on. Remember the Bible says none of us are good. That means we are all capable of evil given the right circumstance. So be careful.

Ecc. 9:11 "I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."

 

[Huckleberry]

.......I'm sure she is in a place of need and while I've never been in that situation...........

She is where her decisions brought her.
I don't sympathize with lazy lowlifes.

 

[Deade]

Thank you for that reminder. The problem I'm having though is that I view everyone as good at a cost to myself. In fact I have dedicated years of my life to one person in particular who was indeed a good person, yet it was 100% a one way street. At the time I saw it as god's work by helping someone who could literally do nothing for me in return, and that was probably the case. However I'm trying to find a new outlook on life so I don't get roped in to a toxic relationship by some woman. That's the next phase of my life is getting out there and meet some women with the hopes of marrying one.

I'm just such a door mat that I don't want to marry the wrong person or get caught up in a long term relationship with a user. My grandma was a door mat her entire life to a husband that was a recovered alcoholic, the last few years he was alive she finally stood up for herself and since he has passed she is working on being independent. Don't get me wrong I loved my grandpa dearly and there was nothing extreme going on, just typical drama.

Yeah Protek, I don't think anyone ought to be a doormat. I don't think Christians, around in my life and involved in my ministry, should let something like that continue. People that use others that way are of the enemy and they must be reproved or ran off. Just saying...

 

[OstrichSmiling]

People can be born with the birth defect that is that of having no conscience. They're not good because they have no comprehension , no inner scale of comprehending right from wrong.
Serial killers are such people. No conscience.

They're out there.People born without a conscience not serial killers, though of course they are too. But that's not the one's I'm speaking of.
The thing about saving ourselves from learning that people with no conscience do exist is to remember what a wise woman once said.
“When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.”
Maya Angelou


Learn about people by their actions because actions speak louder than words.

 

[Adstar]

Being loving towards others is a good thing.. God loves a happy giver..

When ever we act towards another person we are in a way also acting the same way towards God.. The interaction is not just between us and the other person it is also between us and God.. Knowing this it becomes less important for us how the one receiving benefit from us reacts towards us.. They will face God for their response to us whether it was good or toxic.. But we can be satisfied no matter how poorly the other person responds to us because Gods response will be a happy one if we have played our part in the interaction well..

So it is just best to give help if you can and let the other person respond in what ever way they respond.. It does not matter if the other person looks upon you as a sucker or if they look upon you with loving admiration and appreciation.. You know the true giving only comes when we receive nothing back from the one we give to.. So if we give something to another person and we receive praise then we have received a payment for what we have given and so we have not really given anything.. But when someone mocks us after we have given then we can know that we have truly given because we received nothing good in return..

We got to remember God loves even the most toxic of people..

 

[Protek]

Being loving towards others is a good thing.. God loves a happy giver..

When ever we act towards another person we are in a way also acting the same way towards God.. The interaction is not just between us and the other person it is also between us and God.. Knowing this it becomes less important for us how the one receiving benefit from us reacts towards us.. They will face God for their response to us whether it was good or toxic.. But we can be satisfied no matter how poorly the other person responds to us because Gods response will be a happy one if we have played our part in the interaction well..

So it is just best to give help if you can and let the other person respond in what ever way they respond.. It does not matter if the other person looks upon you as a sucker or if they look upon you with loving admiration and appreciation.. You know the true giving only comes when we receive nothing back from the one we give to.. So if we give something to another person and we receive praise then we have received a payment for what we have given and so we have not really given anything.. But when someone mocks us after we have given then we can know that we have truly given because we received nothing good in return..

We got to remember God loves even the most toxic of people..

Not to be a debby downer, but I get called a universalist for that mind set. The whole point of this post was that I have always given freely however I had a revelation that some people should be kept away from me. Again I view all of man kind as deserving of love and kindness, I just don't know how to draw the line and am vulnerable because of it.

edit: thank you for your words, they reassure me that I have been on the correct path.

 

[Adstar]

Not to be a debby downer, but I get called a universalist for that mind set. The whole point of this post was that I have always given freely however I had a revelation that some people should be kept away from me. Again I view all of man kind as deserving of love and kindness, I just don't know how to draw the line and am vulnerable because of it.

A universalist from discussions and debates i have had with universalists hold to the belief that all human beings will be saved from the eternal lake of fire.. That no human beings will be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

So this topic about loving even ones enemies has nothing to do with the doctrine of universalism.. as far as i know..

My point is that we should give if we can give no matter how nice or nasty the other persons seems to be or is... Let God judge the person we are giving help to and let God observe us as we strive to follow His will by being caring and loving and giving towards other human beings..

We don' have to draw any lines... Let God draw the lines at the final judgement.. He knows who is who..

 

[Protek]

A universalist from discussions and debates i have had with universalists hold to the belief that all human beings will be saved from the eternal lake of fire.. That no human beings will be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

So this topic about loving even ones enemies has nothing to do with the doctrine of universalism.. as far as i know..

My point is that we should give if we can give no matter how nice or nasty the other persons seems to be or is... Let God judge the person we are giving help to and let God observe us as we strive to follow His will by being caring and loving and giving towards other human beings..

We don' have to draw any lines... Let God draw the lines at the final judgement.. He knows who is who..

See....... I think I am a universalist at heart.......... however I know better, I don't feel this way but I know that the only way to reconcile the thing's in this world is that hell is real and eternal. Still...... having been given a glimpse of hell, I can't help but pray for a lord so great that he redeems all of hell. Now, with having understood true evil, I just simply can't abide with redemption of those in hell.

Still, I can not accept an eternity in heaven while an eternity in hell exists in some way.

I think the difference between me and a universalist is that I know for a fact MANY are thrown into the lake of fire. I don't know how to speak of evil without sounding evil. I know that demon's bow to Jesus however it is far more complicated than that.

My point is, I am deserving of hell however Jesus was with me since I was born. There was a great man who the lord told he knew since in the womb and that is all of us. My hang up is saying ALL off us. I don't know where to draw that line and simply put, if I tell people that the lord will save you with no end......... some may say........ WTF why don't I just dive into the fire. And it will feel like an eternity before they are saved.

Still I know that there are some souls, being in this multitude, that need to hear "The lord is greater than any suffering you will ever see and he will suffer more than you will to the point it will hurt your soul, the lord will NOT see you suffer another day and will kneel before you as he is a god after mans heart. He will move heaven and earth to keep you from suffering and will know your will."

The lord is greater than the deepest parts of hell and you will bow in fear of his awesomeness.



Wow, sorry I got off on a tangent. I guess I am a universalist.

To tie it all back in, I fully understand that there are consequences of true sin in this world. Following evil and knowing evil have consequences beyond what any man can comprehend.

The problem I have, and this could be the case, is that the lord allows some vessels for salvation and some for destruction. I..... Just can't........... allow that to be. Hell must end either through a light switch being flipped and all of it lost to time......... or every last bit of creation being redeemed forever. My brain isn't big enough to understand anything but heaven and bliss forever.

 

[Protek]

I'm a little drunk tonight, so please don't misunderstand me.

Jesus Christ is the greatest being and also the smallest of beings. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He is with you in all times (if you can hear the words) and he is love exonerated far past the greatest arch angels. He knows hearts, he keeps the world. He is the highest upon high. Simply saying his name............ holds more power than you will ever know. If he even so much as brings you close enough to praise his name............. you will see heaven come down to lift you up. The lord is quiet and the lord is strong. I can't exonerate him more.

Still........ I don't want to talk to him much every night other than a quick run down of my day. I only say his name when I am ready to conquer something. And I have much in my life that I must simply have faith that somehow he is in control of. My life is a scary place and I am overwhelmed often. However even a quick spout of the lords prayer followed by "well I guess this this and the other thing happened, good night............. oh well you want to spend time with me? ok well I'm gonna lay down". My point is Jesus doesn't make himself known in my life anymore.

 

[Adstar]

See....... I think I am a universalist at heart.......... however I know better, I don't feel this way but I know that the only way to reconcile the thing's in this world is that hell is real and eternal. Still...... having been given a glimpse of hell, I can't help but pray for a lord so great that he redeems all of hell. Now, with having understood true evil, I just simply can't abide with redemption of those in hell.

Still, I can not accept an eternity in heaven while an eternity in hell exists in some way.

I think the difference between me and a universalist is that I know for a fact MANY are thrown into the lake of fire. I don't know how to speak of evil without sounding evil. I know that demon's bow to Jesus however it is far more complicated than that.

My point is, I am deserving of hell however Jesus was with me since I was born. There was a great man who the lord told he knew since in the womb and that is all of us. My hang up is saying ALL off us. I don't know where to draw that line and simply put, if I tell people that the lord will save you with no end......... some may say........ WTF why don't I just dive into the fire. And it will feel like an eternity before they are saved.

Still I know that there are some souls, being in this multitude, that need to hear "The lord is greater than any suffering you will ever see and he will suffer more than you will to the point it will hurt your soul, the lord will NOT see you suffer another day and will kneel before you as he is a god after mans heart. He will move heaven and earth to keep you from suffering and will know your will."

The lord is greater than the deepest parts of hell and you will bow in fear of his awesomeness.



Wow, sorry I got off on a tangent. I guess I am a universalist.

To tie it all back in, I fully understand that there are consequences of true sin in this world. Following evil and knowing evil have consequences beyond what any man can comprehend.

The problem I have, and this could be the case, is that the lord allows some vessels for salvation and some for destruction. I..... Just can't........... allow that to be. Hell must end either through a light switch being flipped and all of it lost to time......... or every last bit of creation being redeemed forever. My brain isn't big enough to understand anything but heaven and bliss forever.

Well we are not God, so we do not have the authority or power to make anything exist or anything cease to exist.. So the eternal lake of fire and who is going to be cast into it is in Gods Hands.. Not ours.. We can wish for something and ask for it.. But in the end Gods will shall be done .. The Bible declares that some human beings are going to be cast into the eternal lake of fire after the day of judgement.. So we have to deal with that fact..

As for vessels of salvation and vessels of wrath we play a part in what vessel we become by our personal response to the revealed will of God.. Of Course God already knows all world / human history and thus already knows who is going to respond well and who is going to respond badly in regard to His will for us.. I am definitely not a calvinist. or a universalist.. I might think it would be great if God saved all people from the eternal lake of fire but the reality as revealed by the Bible makes it clear some will have eternity with God in His perfect eternal existence and others will have eternity in the lake of fire..

 

[Protek]

Well we are not God, so we do not have the authority or power to make anything exist or anything cease to exist.. So the eternal lake of fire and who is going to be cast into it is in Gods Hands.. Not ours.. We can wish for something and ask for it.. But in the end Gods will shall be done .. The Bible declares that some human beings are going to be cast into the eternal lake of fire after the day of judgement.. So we have to deal with that fact..

As for vessels of salvation and vessels of wrath we play a part in what vessel we become by our personal response to the revealed will of God.. Of Course God already knows all world / human history and thus already knows who is going to respond well and who is going to respond badly in regard to His will for us.. I am definitely not a calvinist. or a universalist.. I might think it would be great if God saved all people from the eternal lake of fire but the reality as revealed by the Bible makes it clear some will have eternity with God in His perfect eternal existence and others will have eternity in the lake of fire..

Honestly I know this is the truth, I just don't know how to understand it.

The point I'm improperly trying to make here, is that some people need to hear about love that will not end and will not leave, hearing that your sin is covered by a loving god is so powerful. The problem is, that the wrong words may in fact lead some to destruction. I just need to have faith that when I talk about endless salvation, it isn't heard by the damned. I don't know how to speak of a god that saves, and the same god that is righteous and casts the tares into the fire. So I just speak of salvation for the sick and poor.

 

[Deade]

People can be born with the birth defect that is that of having no conscience. They're not good because they have no comprehension , no inner scale of comprehending right from wrong.
Serial killers are such people. No conscience.

I do not think people are born without a conscience. Sure a child is more impressionable than an adult. Their brain synapsis are not fully formed so they are easier to turn into killers (think child soldiers). But serial killers and others that prey on people, lose their moral direction a little at a time. Maybe they weren't brought well and this process had started while still a child.

Anyhow, Satan steals from us any love and compassion one act at a time. He doesn't get us to do the most heinous transgressions at first. No, he whispers self justification into our ears over little things at first, then they progressively get worse. Once the list of the bad acts becomes long, it just keeps growing. Someone gets in your face a little, and maybe you remember busting someone's chops for less than that. It just gets easier and easier to let our attitudes to rule us.

 

[Adstar]

Honestly I know this is the truth, I just don't know how to understand it.

The point I'm improperly trying to make here, is that some people need to hear about love that will not end and will not leave, hearing that your sin is covered by a loving god is so powerful. The problem is, that the wrong words may in fact lead some to destruction. I just need to have faith that when I talk about endless salvation, it isn't heard by the damned. I don't know how to speak of a god that saves, and the same god that is righteous and casts the tares into the fire. So I just speak of salvation for the sick and poor.

It is my experience that the proud will get offended by the notion that they even need to be saved by God... For one to be forgiven one must acknowledge they are in need of forgiveness.. Some people are so proud and they love their sins so much that they become very angry at being told what they love is sin..

There are some people who have to know about the judgement of God how serious it is before they will seriously investigate the Way of salvation.. Just telling these people that there is a loving God up there in heaven and he wants them to have eternal life with Him just does not move them.. They are into the here and now and a God in heaven and an afterlife is to them useless..

But those who meek and have contrition for their evil deeds will see the great value in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. So all those who love the will of God and are honest about their failure to live up to the will of God will latch onto the grace of God when it is revealed to them..

 

[Protek]

It is my experience that the proud will get offended by the notion that they even need to be saved by God... For one to be forgiven one must acknowledge they are in need of forgiveness.. Some people are so proud and they love their sins so much that they become very angry at being told what they love is sin..

There are some people who have to know about the judgement of God how serious it is before they will seriously investigate the Way of salvation.. Just telling these people that there is a loving God up there in heaven and he wants them to have eternal life with Him just does not move them.. They are into the here and now and a God in heaven and an afterlife is to them useless..

But those who meek and have contrition for their evil deeds will see the great value in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. So all those who love the will of God and are honest about their failure to live up to the will of God will latch onto the grace of God when it is revealed to them..

Thank you for the wisdom. It's all something that will take a while to soak in. I know that my mindset had it's place and time, but that is no longer. I used to speak to the destroyed and spoke as if I was meant to bring comfort to the truly desperate. However now I need to rethink that as I'm not hurting enough to relate to them. All different parts of the body. Again thank you for the words, it's going to take a long time to shift gears.