RIGHT TRANSLATION IN HEBREWS 1:8

[oldhermit]

But this "Hebrew of Psalm" is younger than the use in the NT.

I am not sure I understand what point you are trying to make here. My first reaction is "so what?"


[/QUOTE]What about this translation:
"Because of this God - your God! - has anointed you with oil"[/QUOTE]

It is still vocative of address and should be rendered as "Because of this Oh God, your God has anointed you with the oil..." It is the exact same construction as verse 8.

 

[trofimus]

I am not sure I understand what point you are trying to make here. My first reaction is "so what?"

So its irrelevant to the NT problem.

It is still vocative of address and should be rendered as "Because of this Oh God, your God has anointed you with the oil..." It is the exact same construction as verse 8.

It can be. It does not have to be. Right? The same applies to verse 8. We do not have certainity. We have a good probability.

 

[oldhermit]

So its irrelevant to the NT problem.
It can be. It does not have to be. Right? The same applies to verse 8. We do not have certainity. We have a good probability.

The examples of the nominative for the vocative are found in many places in the NT. Everywhere else in the NT where God is addressed, it is always in the nominative spelling with the one exception of Matthew 27:46 where the vocative spelling is actually used. In verse 8, the subject is God, not throne. Since the subject of chapter one is the Son, the Hebrew writer is quoting from the Psalmist to demonstrate that the Son is God and the subject of verses 8 and 9.

 

[JaumeJ]

You may like the included video and approach to Hebrew....

 

[stonesoffire]

Why the right English translation of Hebrews 1:8 is Thy throne O God and not God is your throne?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your question correctly, but will take a stab at it. Lol

The context is about differentiating between angels that are spirits, Gods ministers as flashes of fire like lightening, and Jesus, the only begotten Son who has a throne above both, and equal with Father who calls Him God.

 

[Enoch987]

The point of this nontrinitarian believer (me) who does believe in Jesus' diety but differently than orthodoxy (divinity was given to the Son by the Father) that the opening post tries to describe is that the Son (who the Father calls 'O God') when the Father ( who the Hebrews text says is the Son's God with the words 'your God') anoints the Son with oil of gladness over the Son's companions.

This does not mean the Son was created. It means the Son was anointed ('chosen' in Luke 9:35) over His companions.

Trinitarians will point to Thomas in John 20 calling Jesus "My Lord and My God" while ignoring what Jesus said to Mary Magdalene in the same chapter, "My Father and your Father. My God and your God."

The book of Hebrews talks of Jesus as the firstborn Son.
The Genesis archetypes of the chosen son who were born third but are listed first in the begats are Shem and Abram.
These are not obvious. You have to calculate their ages through their lives.
Shem is 100 two years after the Flood. Noah begat Shem in his 503rd year not in his 500th year.
Abram is 75 after he moves to Canaan after burying his father Terah who dies at 205 years.
Terah begat Abram when he was 130 not 70.
The obvious are Isaac (2nd is chosen) and Ishmael (first born rejected) , Jacob (2nd chosen) and Esau (first born but rejected).

 

[trofimus]

Trinitarians will point to Thomas in John 20 calling Jesus "My Lord and My God" while ignoring what Jesus said to Mary Magdalene in the same chapter, "My Father and your Father. My God and your God."

"For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder, and his name is called the messenger of great counsel, wonderful counsellor, mighty God (Θεὸς ἰσχυρός), potentate, prince of peace, father of the age to come."
Is 9:6
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Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God! (ὁ Θεός μου)”
John 20:28
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“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος)
John 1:1
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For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (ἴσον τῷ Θεῷ)
J 5:18 (notice that this is a commentary by the apostle, not by Jews)
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"Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage." (ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ, ἴσα Θεῷ)
Phil 2:6

 

[Zmouth]

Why the right English translation of Hebrews 1:8 is Thy throne O God and not God is your throne?

Sounds like Paul was writing about the Emperor of Rome which had dominion of over the whole world at that time, who held the title of Divi Filius, since the Emperor was both God (Ceasar) and Son of God. (Divi Filius).

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sounds like Paul was writing about the Emperor of Rome which had dominion of over the whole world at that time, who held the title of Divi Filius, since the Emperor was both God (Ceasar) and Son of God. (Divi Filius).

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

 

[oldhermit]

The examples of the nominative for the vocative are found in many places in the NT. Everywhere else in the NT where God is addressed, it is always in the nominative spelling with the one exception of Matthew 27:46 where the vocative spelling is actually used. In verse 8, the subject is God, not throne. Since the subject of chapter one is the Son, the Hebrew writer is quoting from the Psalmist to demonstrate that the Son is God and the subject of verses 8 and 9.

I want to apologize for this post. I said this backward and did not notice it until much later. God is not the subject of verse 8. The subject of verse 8 is throne and the Son is God who occupies the throne. I am sorry if I confused anyone on this point. I am surprised that no one caught this error.

 

[Zmouth]

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

Who did Paul appeal to God or Ceasar?

And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.
Acts 23:1

For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:13-14

Good to see that persecuting people by imprisonment and death didn't effect his conscience any.

For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.
Acts 25:11

Do you know the difference between a free born Roman and a free Roman?

And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned? Acts 22:25
And the chief captain answered, With a great sum obtained I this freedom. And Paul said, But I was free born. Acts 22:28

 

[jameen]

So the word God in Hebrews 1:8 is vocative and not nominative?

If God is your throne is the right translation it means it will become nominative right?

 

[Zmouth]

Since there are 6 endings in Latin to distinguish a noun from an adjective in relationship to other words in a sentence, so in addition to Vocative and Nominative there are Genitive, Accusative, Dative, Ablative, and Vocative; and there are fragments of a seventh, the Locative. So it depends since the Church translated the Greek into Latin and Latin was used for hundred of years.

 

[oldhermit]

So the word God in Hebrews 1:8 is vocative and not nominative?

If God is your throne is the right translation it means it will become nominative right?

No, ho Theos is the nominative spelling but, as with every other time God is addresses in the NT in the nominative, it carries the force of the vocative of address. This is a very common usage of the nominative in the Greek. The subject is not God, it is throne, "Your throne O God, is forever."

 

[jameen]

Will anyone tell me why English translators translated THY TRONE OH GOD from Greek of Hebrews 1:8 and not God is your throne?

because some Unitarians believe that if you translate all the Greek words there then it says THY TRONE THE GOD IS FOREVER and they simple corrected it to God is your throne.

And according to the Bible, why it is absurd to say that the Son's throne is God?

please give me a well informed presentation in one post thanks.

 

[trofimus]

Will anyone tell me why English translators translated THY TRONE OH GOD from Greek of Hebrews 1:8 and not God is your throne?

because some Unitarians believe that if you translate all the Greek words there then it says THY TRONE THE GOD IS FOREVER and they simple corrected it to God is your throne.

And according to the Bible, why it is absurd to say that the Son's throne is God?

please give me a well informed presentation in one post thanks.

oldhermit gave you a systematic answer in his post #19

 

[JaumeJ]

Will anyone tell me why English translators translated THY TRONE OH GOD from Greek of Hebrews 1:8 and not God is your throne?

because some Unitarians believe that if you translate all the Greek words there then it says THY TRONE THE GOD IS FOREVER and they simple corrected it to God is your throne.

And according to the Bible, why it is absurd to say that the Son's throne is God?

please give me a well informed presentation in one post thanks.

Why do you ask for a well informed response when all know there are arros in the translations of the Word from Genesis through and including the final amen of Revelation?

There are many words that are simply guesswork in their translations in the Ot, AND IT Is certain the NT is not void of similar misconceptions.

Of course if you are strictly intellectualize your approach to understanding the Word, the Holy Spirit is most likely not present in your learning process since this is the only manner of truly understanding any part of the Word.

 

[JChesney]

Sounds like Paul was writing about the Emperor of Rome which had dominion of over the whole world at that time, who held the title of Divi Filius, since the Emperor was both God (Ceasar) and Son of God. (Divi Filius).

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8

yes it is true, in ancient Rome there was a cult of the emperor, and he was revered as "the son of God". But Hebrews 1: 8 quotes Ps 45 (44): 6 (7) where the psalmist turns to the Jewish monarch.

 

[Zmouth]

But Hebrews 1: 8 quotes Ps 45 (44): 6 (7) where the psalmist turns to the Jewish monarch.

Everything in the NT is copied and pasted from the OT, yet who was Paul writing to, which Son, the Son of God or the Son of man?
........................................................Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Ps 45:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8

 

[oldhermit]

some Unitarians believe that if you translate all the Greek words there then it says THY TRONE THE GOD IS FOREVER and they simple corrected it to God is your throne.

This is what happens when people attempt to translate the NT who clearly do not understand the Greek. I am no Greek scholar but it does not take one to understand the simple mechanics of this verse. "God is your throne" is simply incorrect.