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Not By Works
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No one I ever met says we can go ahead and sin, it is ok.
I hear fart more often people who watewr down the law. Yet at the same time judge others.. and claim we must work hard to maintain salvation. When the law says perfection is what is rrequired.
If perfection is required. And we who repent KNOW THIS, how or why would we say it is ok to sin, that makes no sense.
I hear fart more often people who watewr down the law. Yet at the same time judge others.. and claim we must work hard to maintain salvation. When the law says perfection is what is rrequired.
If perfection is required. And we who repent KNOW THIS, how or why would we say it is ok to sin, that makes no sense.
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I did not say he misspoke in all the other places just that he was speaking in shorthand. Jesus spoke many things that are not in scripture for if they all were recorded they would fill the whole world. Maybe Mark was the one editing what was commonly known by his readers. Study the early Church Fathers on baptism. Protestants dismiss them saying they misunderstood the role of baptism. Maybe the Fathers had it right and people 1500 years later got it wrong.
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You have way to many assumptions here my friend. I do not like to assum things when I read the word.
If baptism was required, Jesus would not just say it in one area
And by the way, We are saved in the NT the same way Abraham was. By faith, Not faith plus any works. Baptism is a work.
Not by works of righteoiusness which we have done (including baptism) but by Gods mercy he saved us by the washing (baptism) and renwal (new birth) of the HS.
If baptism was required, Jesus would not just say it in one area
And by the way, We are saved in the NT the same way Abraham was. By faith, Not faith plus any works. Baptism is a work.
Not by works of righteoiusness which we have done (including baptism) but by Gods mercy he saved us by the washing (baptism) and renwal (new birth) of the HS.
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I have told you before, the BAPTISM THAT SAVES is the Holy Spirit immersing our newly born human spirit, into the spiritual body of JESUS CHRIST.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (TLB)
13 Each of us is a part of the one body of Christ. Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But the Holy Spirit has fitted us all together into one body. We have been baptized into Christ’s body by the one Spirit, and have all been given that same Holy Spirit.
THAT IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES, NOT WATER.
1 Peter 3:20 (NCV)
20 who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for them while Noah was building the boat. Only a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (TLB)
13 Each of us is a part of the one body of Christ. Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But the Holy Spirit has fitted us all together into one body. We have been baptized into Christ’s body by the one Spirit, and have all been given that same Holy Spirit.
THAT IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES, NOT WATER.
1 Peter 3:20 (NCV)
20 who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for them while Noah was building the boat. Only a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.
You know what is going on. You are not the common Christian who is struggling to keep their heads above water with the challenges of this world. You are not the common Christian that is tempted by satan every day to give up on Christianity because it is not true. There are billions of Christians that exist and at any time there are thousands that are on the verge of falling away.
You OTOH are comfortable in your belief of Jesus Christ and have gone through the gauntlet of temptation and have come out the other end ready to stand up for Jesus and defend your beliefs. You are an anomaly in the Christian world, because you are trying to live like Jesus lived. It is not so for the masses of Christians.
If you were a nominal Christian that believes they are saved, and they hear their pastor tell them that they are saved and Jesus will never let them go, no matter what they do, and because they are under grace, if they do sin, Jesus will just immediately wipe it clean, do you not see that this preaching is setting up common Christians to sin, rather than be more righteous. In fact they are told righteousness is not a good thing because it brings on boasting. What a perfect scenario for laziness and sin. If you can't see that, then wait another 10 years and see where the Christian churches will be. Church pews are slowly emptying, as Christians try to come to some reason why they must even come to church, being under the "so called" freedom of grace. It is not a good thing.
You OTOH are comfortable in your belief of Jesus Christ and have gone through the gauntlet of temptation and have come out the other end ready to stand up for Jesus and defend your beliefs. You are an anomaly in the Christian world, because you are trying to live like Jesus lived. It is not so for the masses of Christians.
If you were a nominal Christian that believes they are saved, and they hear their pastor tell them that they are saved and Jesus will never let them go, no matter what they do, and because they are under grace, if they do sin, Jesus will just immediately wipe it clean, do you not see that this preaching is setting up common Christians to sin, rather than be more righteous. In fact they are told righteousness is not a good thing because it brings on boasting. What a perfect scenario for laziness and sin. If you can't see that, then wait another 10 years and see where the Christian churches will be. Church pews are slowly emptying, as Christians try to come to some reason why they must even come to church, being under the "so called" freedom of grace. It is not a good thing.
Thanks for reflecting the question. You could have said something like: Well, these people believed and were baptized by water first and then they were immersed by the HS later by the laying on of hands. But I suspect the laying on of hands by men would not fit your agenda or mode of operation. How could men lay their hands on a person and give the immersion of the HS???? Did the bible get this wrong? Is not the immersion of the HS done only by God, and not being tainted in any way with the work of men? So I ask again, did the bible just get it wrong.
You are aware that there are 3 examples in the NT that men received the HS after they were baptized and by the laying on of hands.
Can you explain how men layed hands on a persons head and that person received the HS? How could that be?
You are aware that there are 3 examples in the NT that men received the HS after they were baptized and by the laying on of hands.
Can you explain how men layed hands on a persons head and that person received the HS? How could that be?
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Says who? Paul said satan Is out to get us, if your a walking christian and not severely persecuted by satan, something is wrong
If not for my faith in christ and knowledge of his love and mercy, i would have left christianity a long time ago, why bother persevering if it all may be in naught. I can work and work , then in a moment of time do something to lose salvation and uts all gone.
I would say there are billions who may have weak faith, and want to give upm and may even become a prodigal child,
But no on is on the cerge of falling away (losing salvation). Or they would not have any hope to begin with, there wouod be no need to continue, why bother?
If a pastor says this he needs chastened himself because he is not preaching sanctification!
It is far worse to give a person no hope, and cause them to walk away thinking they lost salvation (why bother) than to give a person hope that no matter how far persecution goes, not matter how far we fall, no matter how hurt we get, God is still there, he will not go back on his promise. Because he paid the price of redemption, get back up and keep moving forward, because God has your back.
If not for my faith in christ and knowledge of his love and mercy, i would have left christianity a long time ago, why bother persevering if it all may be in naught. I can work and work , then in a moment of time do something to lose salvation and uts all gone.
I would say there are billions who may have weak faith, and want to give upm and may even become a prodigal child,
But no on is on the cerge of falling away (losing salvation). Or they would not have any hope to begin with, there wouod be no need to continue, why bother?
If a pastor says this he needs chastened himself because he is not preaching sanctification!
It is far worse to give a person no hope, and cause them to walk away thinking they lost salvation (why bother) than to give a person hope that no matter how far persecution goes, not matter how far we fall, no matter how hurt we get, God is still there, he will not go back on his promise. Because he paid the price of redemption, get back up and keep moving forward, because God has your back.
I need the Verse reference, to be sure. My guess is MOST PEOPLE THINK THAT BELIEVING is something you do with your mind between your ears. IT IS NOT, it is Believing in the HEART, and the human spirit in a natural child birth, is born spiritually dead, because of the Sin Nature you inherited from ADAM. That is why the Jesus to Nicodemus in John chapter 3,
John 3:3 (TLB)
3 Jesus replied, "With all the earnestness I possess I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never get into the Kingdom of God."
John 3:6-7 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.
English is a POOR language to translate the BIBLE into. The words used by Jesus has a MUCH DEEPER MEANING about the word BELIEVE, than the English equivalent. To BELIEVE in the original Greek carriers with it TOTAL TRUST, not just head knowledge. Even the Demons in the demoniacs at Gadera had head knowledge about JESUS, and even bowed down and called HIM, Son of the Most High GOD. So head knowledge is not what the Jews mean by BELIEVE. It must have total trust, coming from the heart.
For Example:
If two Jews walked up to a frozen over lake in early winter.
Jew #1 ask Jew #2 "Do you believe the ice is thick enough to walk on yet?"
Jew #2 said, "Yes, I believe it is thick enough to walk on." AND then Jew #2
put one foot out to test the thickness of the ice.
Jew #1 would shout, "You are a LIAR. If you really believed the ice was thick
enough to walk on, you would have boldly walked out there and put your
whole weight on what you claimed to believe.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So until you are willing to put you WHOLE WEIGHT ON JESUS, you do not have
the FAITH required to really BELIEVE.
Matthew 18:6 (HCSB)
6 “But whoever causes the downfall of one of these little ones who believe in Me—it would be better for him if a heavy millstone were hung around his neck and he were drowned in the depths of the sea!
You see what I mean, about the word BELIEVE?
Ironically that is why JESUS thought so much of a CHILD'S FAITH. They believe wholeheartedly.
If a father came home and saw his 3 or 4 year old boy standing on a chicken coop's roof, and the father went straight over to below that roof, and said "Jump son, Daddy will catch you." That Dad had be ready to catch, because that boy will JUMP. The Faith of the Child is that total trust that Daddy will catch him.
John 3:3 (TLB)
3 Jesus replied, "With all the earnestness I possess I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never get into the Kingdom of God."
John 3:6-7 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.
English is a POOR language to translate the BIBLE into. The words used by Jesus has a MUCH DEEPER MEANING about the word BELIEVE, than the English equivalent. To BELIEVE in the original Greek carriers with it TOTAL TRUST, not just head knowledge. Even the Demons in the demoniacs at Gadera had head knowledge about JESUS, and even bowed down and called HIM, Son of the Most High GOD. So head knowledge is not what the Jews mean by BELIEVE. It must have total trust, coming from the heart.
For Example:
If two Jews walked up to a frozen over lake in early winter.
Jew #1 ask Jew #2 "Do you believe the ice is thick enough to walk on yet?"
Jew #2 said, "Yes, I believe it is thick enough to walk on." AND then Jew #2
put one foot out to test the thickness of the ice.
Jew #1 would shout, "You are a LIAR. If you really believed the ice was thick
enough to walk on, you would have boldly walked out there and put your
whole weight on what you claimed to believe.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So until you are willing to put you WHOLE WEIGHT ON JESUS, you do not have
the FAITH required to really BELIEVE.
Matthew 18:6 (HCSB)
6 “But whoever causes the downfall of one of these little ones who believe in Me—it would be better for him if a heavy millstone were hung around his neck and he were drowned in the depths of the sea!
You see what I mean, about the word BELIEVE?
Ironically that is why JESUS thought so much of a CHILD'S FAITH. They believe wholeheartedly.
If a father came home and saw his 3 or 4 year old boy standing on a chicken coop's roof, and the father went straight over to below that roof, and said "Jump son, Daddy will catch you." That Dad had be ready to catch, because that boy will JUMP. The Faith of the Child is that total trust that Daddy will catch him.
Is not every word of Scripture inspired? Did not Paul make a big deal about the word seed as opposed seeds plural. Further scripture does not contradict itself. We cannot say Jesus said A 10 times and NOT A one time and then conclude A is correct. We must conclude that all 11 statements are true and we must find someway to harmonize the apparent contradiction.
I must disagree with this.
Church pews are not slowly emptying based on what you say.
People are not coming to church because the church is not welcoming.
It's judgemental, clean yourself up otherwise your not welcome.
Do this do that before you can be baptised. Be perfect.
Things like baptism saves, if you speak in tongues it's evidence you are saved, if you don't give 10% of your income then you are robbing God, then the reverse is if you give 10% God will give you more back. When it does not happen then what.
The church is not united.
Belivers tear each other apart.
Mainstream church comes across as holier than thou attitude.
We are seen as hypocrites.
The church is not and should not be a museum/hotel for the saints but a hospital for the sinners.
Church pews are not slowly emptying based on what you say.
People are not coming to church because the church is not welcoming.
It's judgemental, clean yourself up otherwise your not welcome.
Do this do that before you can be baptised. Be perfect.
Things like baptism saves, if you speak in tongues it's evidence you are saved, if you don't give 10% of your income then you are robbing God, then the reverse is if you give 10% God will give you more back. When it does not happen then what.
The church is not united.
Belivers tear each other apart.
Mainstream church comes across as holier than thou attitude.
We are seen as hypocrites.
The church is not and should not be a museum/hotel for the saints but a hospital for the sinners.
I know you asked EG this question.
I just wanted to post what my Bible study notes say
11:18 Gentiles, who have been grafted into the Abrahamic covenant and therefore become recipients of God’s blessing, should not boast. Gentile believers should not despise the Jews, the branches of God’s vine.
11:19 The reason Israel was broken off (v. 17), “cast away” (v. 15), and has fallen (v. 12) is so that Gentiles could be grafted into the tree.
11:20 Well said: Paul agrees with the objector (see v. 19) that Israel was broken off because of unbelief and that Gentiles stand by faith. But he goes on to warn that Gentiles should not be haughty, but fear. Standing before God is based on faith. Feelings of superiority are out of place.
11:21 Paul was warning the Gentiles not to be arrogant (v. 20), but to remember that they depended on God and were accountable to Him no less than the Jews were.
11:22, 23 If Gentiles continue in God’s goodness, they will not be cut off, and if Jews turn to God in faith, they can be grafted in again. This is not a reference to individual salvation but to God’s program for Jews and Gentiles.
So is it about individuals or nations?
Paul was called to preach to the gentiles.
He is warning them is that Israel as a nation rejected Jesus and their attitude stunk.
So the warning is, do not do the same otherwise the gentiles could suffer the same.
Of course we know that a remnant will be saved when it comes to Israel
I just wanted to post what my Bible study notes say
11:18 Gentiles, who have been grafted into the Abrahamic covenant and therefore become recipients of God’s blessing, should not boast. Gentile believers should not despise the Jews, the branches of God’s vine.
11:19 The reason Israel was broken off (v. 17), “cast away” (v. 15), and has fallen (v. 12) is so that Gentiles could be grafted into the tree.
11:20 Well said: Paul agrees with the objector (see v. 19) that Israel was broken off because of unbelief and that Gentiles stand by faith. But he goes on to warn that Gentiles should not be haughty, but fear. Standing before God is based on faith. Feelings of superiority are out of place.
11:21 Paul was warning the Gentiles not to be arrogant (v. 20), but to remember that they depended on God and were accountable to Him no less than the Jews were.
11:22, 23 If Gentiles continue in God’s goodness, they will not be cut off, and if Jews turn to God in faith, they can be grafted in again. This is not a reference to individual salvation but to God’s program for Jews and Gentiles.
So is it about individuals or nations?
Paul was called to preach to the gentiles.
He is warning them is that Israel as a nation rejected Jesus and their attitude stunk.
So the warning is, do not do the same otherwise the gentiles could suffer the same.
Of course we know that a remnant will be saved when it comes to Israel
11:20 Some of the Jews were cutoff because of unbelief.
11:21 If God did not spare the natural branches for unbelief neither will he spare you because of unbelief.
11:22 Note then the kindness and severity of God, severity to those who have fallen and kindness to you provided you remain in his kindness.
We must remember that all the first believers were Jews. The branches that were cut-off were the scribes and Pharisees. Gentiles were grafted in through faith. He is obviously talking about individuals who can be cut off like the scribes if they do not continue in God's kindness.