Biblical demonology
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So I believe that the end time being like the time of Noah will be the devil and his demons will be kicked out of the second heaven and will be given a flesh body so that they will no longer be able to go in and out of the second heaven. So they will be on the earth, but we will be told that they are aliens from outer space.
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An interesting study.....the word chariot in the O.T. and the times it is applied unto the angels of the Lord/Throne of God/Elijah....how they move, what they do, where they go etc....most people when they hear the word chariot automatically assume that it equates to a two wheeled Roman/Greek/Egyptian style chariot<----wrong answer.....
To what type of education are you referring? I'm right smack dab in the middle of homeless and substance abuse ministries. I don't have a formal education in psychiatry or the like, but I've been through the ringer enough, and have an extensive semi-formal education, Bible based, and I can relate to the folks out there in trouble where pro analysts won't be asked for the time of day.
Demons, things brought on themselves, genetic curses, childhood abuses and traumas, brain malfunctions and chemical imbalances, it's all out there. I sometimes wish I had the formal psych degrees, but I get by, and I know when to refer someone to the pros. Problem is that when demons are involved the pros often aren't trained for it.
Demons, things brought on themselves, genetic curses, childhood abuses and traumas, brain malfunctions and chemical imbalances, it's all out there. I sometimes wish I had the formal psych degrees, but I get by, and I know when to refer someone to the pros. Problem is that when demons are involved the pros often aren't trained for it.
PEACE. I was taught at church when I first became a Christian that their was no such thing as mental illness all that they needed to do was get saved, get right with god and stay in the word and they would be fine. I came from a mission background also. People would call the suicide hotline, get prayed for and the next day be in the hospital because they ODd' or cut themselves.
I realized that my sinfull life, a few months at a mission, AA, 6 mos of bible study and a year in christian broadcasting didn't prepare me for what I had gotten myself into. A pastor and Chaplin told me inspite of what I hear from the pulpit mental illness is real, it's biological and most pastors & evangelists have never been to an institution for the clinicaly insane, they're just salesmen for God and if I wanted to make a permanent improvement in their lives, I had some learning to do.
My own wife was bipolar and I was in denial. She was saved, how could she be crazy I wondered. I quit the Hot line right away, I didn't like what he said about the senior pastors...Life went on... Years later, I became involved with a treatment center, I got a 12 step recovery bible, a big book, Dual Diagnosis dual disorders, Celebrating small Victories and enrolled in community college. Yes it took time money and work. There's time to start, just find out what books are on the cylibus at your local college, read them online, go to a library or buy them used at a school book store.
Some people just get healed in an instant others suffer for life. I'm not saying your experiences are invalid but your perspective from the road of hard knocks is very limited.
Last I was responding to someone who was giving out psycho babel and advise that denied mental illness just like I was taught to do in the beginning and it made me angry. Once I was on the phone with a girl that passed out on sleeping pills when the fire dept broke down the door with a battering ram and a fire axe. Good thing I hand some help to trace the call that night.
I realized that my sinfull life, a few months at a mission, AA, 6 mos of bible study and a year in christian broadcasting didn't prepare me for what I had gotten myself into. A pastor and Chaplin told me inspite of what I hear from the pulpit mental illness is real, it's biological and most pastors & evangelists have never been to an institution for the clinicaly insane, they're just salesmen for God and if I wanted to make a permanent improvement in their lives, I had some learning to do.
My own wife was bipolar and I was in denial. She was saved, how could she be crazy I wondered. I quit the Hot line right away, I didn't like what he said about the senior pastors...Life went on... Years later, I became involved with a treatment center, I got a 12 step recovery bible, a big book, Dual Diagnosis dual disorders, Celebrating small Victories and enrolled in community college. Yes it took time money and work. There's time to start, just find out what books are on the cylibus at your local college, read them online, go to a library or buy them used at a school book store.
Some people just get healed in an instant others suffer for life. I'm not saying your experiences are invalid but your perspective from the road of hard knocks is very limited.
Last I was responding to someone who was giving out psycho babel and advise that denied mental illness just like I was taught to do in the beginning and it made me angry. Once I was on the phone with a girl that passed out on sleeping pills when the fire dept broke down the door with a battering ram and a fire axe. Good thing I hand some help to trace the call that night.
I agree with most of what you are saying. But I would say my hard knocks experience has been enlightening, and my perspective not so limited as you might think. My education in this is similar to what you describe; starting in 2001, 3 years in-house bible-based recovery, books, seminars, 2 years substance abuse counselor training, and I surround myself with pros. I'm pretty knowledgeable regarding co-morbidity. I've been, in the past, diagnosed with various forms and degrees of it. (Crack, alcohol + Bipolar, OCD, ADHD) But everything I study, I do so with regard to how does it aline with the Word of God. That needs to be the first line of offense, because demons exist, and only those in Christ can recognize them, and separate them out from the worldly psych views, so they can be cast out.
The point I was really making and didn't quite get out, is that much (if not most) of the problems with the homeless (of which I am one) are not mental illnesses requiring 'professional' treatment. All it takes is compassion and a willingness to help, and most problems can be dealt with by laymen street ministers like myself, with faith, prayer, the Word of God. I know how to tell the difference, or if I'm in over my head. Similar to how a paramedic knows when to move over and let the Doctor take over.
But the hard knocks school helps me cut through the garbage the homeless often get from local shelter and neighborhood clinics, (only option available usually, except for veterans, and the VA doesn't do much better), who's practitioners are not only not real doctors, they frequently aren't even spiritual. They can do more damage than an ignorant Pastor, misdiagnosing and prescribing pills for simple depression and such (without previous history, just put out the pills, dude!, yea, now I'm addicted to something else, dude!) Street ministries put people on the front line, like medics in a war zone. There are folks who do have mental illnesses that would never tell anyone, and nobody would know, except that someone cares and stops to pray with them on the street and can recognize there's a bigger problem, and can help them find proper treatment, if they can be talked into going, and if not, I need to be prepared to stick with them until they are.
I don't see the connection here. Do you mean the clergy lack training in psycho analysis and therapy? I know of many Pastors and Ministers with medical degrees in psychology and related stuff. I think this kind of training should be required to some extent. But I don't see how not going to an institute means they're just a salesman for God, whatever that means. It would make sense to say that some Pastors who are nothing more than salesmen of God would never visit such an institution, and that would be true.
Outta time gotta post this, got more to say though, please wait for it.
The point I was really making and didn't quite get out, is that much (if not most) of the problems with the homeless (of which I am one) are not mental illnesses requiring 'professional' treatment. All it takes is compassion and a willingness to help, and most problems can be dealt with by laymen street ministers like myself, with faith, prayer, the Word of God. I know how to tell the difference, or if I'm in over my head. Similar to how a paramedic knows when to move over and let the Doctor take over.
But the hard knocks school helps me cut through the garbage the homeless often get from local shelter and neighborhood clinics, (only option available usually, except for veterans, and the VA doesn't do much better), who's practitioners are not only not real doctors, they frequently aren't even spiritual. They can do more damage than an ignorant Pastor, misdiagnosing and prescribing pills for simple depression and such (without previous history, just put out the pills, dude!, yea, now I'm addicted to something else, dude!) Street ministries put people on the front line, like medics in a war zone. There are folks who do have mental illnesses that would never tell anyone, and nobody would know, except that someone cares and stops to pray with them on the street and can recognize there's a bigger problem, and can help them find proper treatment, if they can be talked into going, and if not, I need to be prepared to stick with them until they are.
I don't see the connection here. Do you mean the clergy lack training in psycho analysis and therapy? I know of many Pastors and Ministers with medical degrees in psychology and related stuff. I think this kind of training should be required to some extent. But I don't see how not going to an institute means they're just a salesman for God, whatever that means. It would make sense to say that some Pastors who are nothing more than salesmen of God would never visit such an institution, and that would be true.
Outta time gotta post this, got more to say though, please wait for it.
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The pastors my pastor was talking about were television celebrities and traveling guest celebrities that start off slowly and build up to cresendo, often with music and pass the collection plate, split the collection 50/50 with the host church and split with their half. That's the kind of place I was talking about. The real work is done behind the scenes by pastors and ministers that never get into the spotlight. Folks with real educations. not Hollywood versions of Brother Loves Traveling Salvation Show, where I worked over a year.
So my advice was not to solely repeat things we've heard by professional pitch men but to really investigate. The above paragraph describes some of my time with 'professional christians.' It took a brave but humble man to clue me in to what was really going on and how badly people need our help.
For enough dough/donation that is you can get an honorary doctorate in theology and be introduced as Dr Joe Whatever, Theologan and in our crazy deceptive culture nobody questions someone in a suit with a bible who calls them self doctor. It's legal and tax exempt.
So my advice was not to solely repeat things we've heard by professional pitch men but to really investigate. The above paragraph describes some of my time with 'professional christians.' It took a brave but humble man to clue me in to what was really going on and how badly people need our help.
For enough dough/donation that is you can get an honorary doctorate in theology and be introduced as Dr Joe Whatever, Theologan and in our crazy deceptive culture nobody questions someone in a suit with a bible who calls them self doctor. It's legal and tax exempt.
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. I was talking about street ministry and the problems I see, and the kind of help that's needed out there, and what's required. God didn't specify any courses at a school. Learn the Word. Have compassion, feed the lambs, etc, I studied enough for a degree, but that's not what most folks on the street need. I see all the time, "oh, give them a t-shirt and a pair of pants and they should be back on top of it in a few weeks. Bull. You brought up homeless, so let's get on it, ok?
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I saw several extremly different ministries in the same place, suicide prevetion was only one of them, drug and alcohol was another. Television broadcasting, questions and answers, every sunday morning before service, christian business mens prayer breakfast, jews for jesus, charismatic catholics, traditional greek ortodox, womens studies, assemblies of god was always a big hit. I've heard pastors say all or most baptists are going to hell because they don't speak in tongues we had a school of theology than earned college credits, school of the bible that didn't. The list goes on and on. we could seat 3000 people in the main sanctuary alone 3 times per day. The homeless would come to us daily but we had to give them referals because we didn't have facilities for them but we did have a battered women shelter. The womens shelter accepted welfare checks and food stamps but also housed children on occasion. The center helped a lot of people.
It was the phony show business/carnival atmosphere that I was criticizing preachers saying things like if you are ill it's because of sin in your life or there is no such thing as mental illness. Someone tells a delusional, psycotic, suicidal or schizophrenic person that he is posessed and he isn't, think of what can happen and how much harm it may do. That was my concern. I've heard it 100s of times.
If I've offended you, that was not my intent. But that superstision gets people killed and it gets me angry, so I tend to shoot off my mouth. I'm not saying demons aren't real I'm saying mental illness is.
It was the phony show business/carnival atmosphere that I was criticizing preachers saying things like if you are ill it's because of sin in your life or there is no such thing as mental illness. Someone tells a delusional, psycotic, suicidal or schizophrenic person that he is posessed and he isn't, think of what can happen and how much harm it may do. That was my concern. I've heard it 100s of times.
If I've offended you, that was not my intent. But that superstision gets people killed and it gets me angry, so I tend to shoot off my mouth. I'm not saying demons aren't real I'm saying mental illness is.
I believe you are on the right track. People seem to confuse things, Keep these seperated.
Nephilium - Fallen Angels: They left there first estate, Jude 1:6, They have a spirit body that they will have till there death. It will be their first death. Because of the choice they made. FYI, That choice they made was to not come to this earth through the womb of women. Instead, they came as angels, And God said if they do that they can not ever come back. That was unforgivable for them. That was their death sentance. they did try to ask God to forgive them, But he said no they made their choice with full knowledge of what they were doing. For us, in the flesh, it would be considered our second death for those who don't overcome. ( another story for another time )
Geber - These are the giants that roamed the earth back in the day, ( Now this part is my opinion. ) I think these angels were still against Gods plan to redeem all the souls, But for some reason didn't leave with the first group. Remember Lucifer deceived 1/3rd of the angels and that is a lot more than the 7000 that left the first time. They thought they found a loophole in the plan. So by choosing to put their spirit in a hybrid body, they lost both the spirit body and when they were destroyed in the flood they lost their flesh body. Also never being able to go back, Even to Hates which is on the other side of the Gulf but still in Heaven. Another story for another time. And raises more questions. But now they are doomed to roam the earth without a body until their 2nd death. They do float around and seek bodies to inhabit, But they have rules they have to follow. they can't just jump into people they have be invited. The Holy Spirit follows the same rules, He won't just inhabit anyone he has to be invited. With the exception of his elect, But then come to think of it they already invited him in, back during the rebellion. Anywho another story for another time. there is a lot more but you are probably getting tired of reading. So i will just move on.
Mentally disturbed - there is a difference, But sometimes its hard to tell, I get them mixed up sometimes, just don't be too quick to judge. I do know the possessed ones I have encountered in the past, The little hairs on the back of my neck stood straight up. I wasn't sure what it was at the time,but I was not prepared for it. Also if it were not for the holy spirit i would have had my but handed to me on a silver platter. Just sayin there there is alot we still dont under stand which is why we still need to depend on God. But there is nothing new under the sun, it has all been done before.
Nephilium - Fallen Angels: They left there first estate, Jude 1:6, They have a spirit body that they will have till there death. It will be their first death. Because of the choice they made. FYI, That choice they made was to not come to this earth through the womb of women. Instead, they came as angels, And God said if they do that they can not ever come back. That was unforgivable for them. That was their death sentance. they did try to ask God to forgive them, But he said no they made their choice with full knowledge of what they were doing. For us, in the flesh, it would be considered our second death for those who don't overcome. ( another story for another time )
Geber - These are the giants that roamed the earth back in the day, ( Now this part is my opinion. ) I think these angels were still against Gods plan to redeem all the souls, But for some reason didn't leave with the first group. Remember Lucifer deceived 1/3rd of the angels and that is a lot more than the 7000 that left the first time. They thought they found a loophole in the plan. So by choosing to put their spirit in a hybrid body, they lost both the spirit body and when they were destroyed in the flood they lost their flesh body. Also never being able to go back, Even to Hates which is on the other side of the Gulf but still in Heaven. Another story for another time. And raises more questions. But now they are doomed to roam the earth without a body until their 2nd death. They do float around and seek bodies to inhabit, But they have rules they have to follow. they can't just jump into people they have be invited. The Holy Spirit follows the same rules, He won't just inhabit anyone he has to be invited. With the exception of his elect, But then come to think of it they already invited him in, back during the rebellion. Anywho another story for another time. there is a lot more but you are probably getting tired of reading. So i will just move on.
Mentally disturbed - there is a difference, But sometimes its hard to tell, I get them mixed up sometimes, just don't be too quick to judge. I do know the possessed ones I have encountered in the past, The little hairs on the back of my neck stood straight up. I wasn't sure what it was at the time,but I was not prepared for it. Also if it were not for the holy spirit i would have had my but handed to me on a silver platter. Just sayin there there is alot we still dont under stand which is why we still need to depend on God. But there is nothing new under the sun, it has all been done before.
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A Pastor I used to work with was former Missionary from South Africa he shared some stories that were horrifying. The [spiritual] enemies don't hide down there! Many women must get pregnant before they get married to prove they can concieve then get circumsized to prevent them from enjoying sex or commiting adultery. Yes demons are real! But so is mental illness.