The Greek interpretation of "salvation" is, A deliverance. Examples: When we pray to God to heal a sickness that we have, and he heals it, we have experienced a deliverance, not eternal deliverance, but a deliverance here in time. Because the scriptures were letters written to those who are already his children, most of the salvation scriptures are telling us how we can be delivered here in time by obeying God's commandments.
SALVATION
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Roger, thanks for responding to my post. I am not fully understanding your response. I am 83 years old, so understanding may come a little slower. Do you understand the concept of the two different types of salvation, one being eternal and the other being timely (a deliverance, or being saved many times as we live here in this world)?
Then perhaps you already know that the Greek words referring to salvation of Christians is an active tense meaning saved, being saved and saved into the future?
Why are conflating salvation with deliverance? What do you hope to acheive? Are you undermining the effacasy of the blood of Christ and the grace of the gospel?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Why are conflating salvation with deliverance? What do you hope to acheive? Are you undermining the effacasy of the blood of Christ and the grace of the gospel?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
A clear example of the Greek word "soteria" (salvation) being used for physical deliverance is in Philippians 1:19 - where Paul says - "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer" - Paul does not mean he is gong to be spiritually saved, but likely he means that he thinks through their prayers he will be delivered from prison.
So I think you are right that their is a "spiritual salvation" and also a "physical deliverance". I have not studied it out, but my guess is that the difference will not always be crystal clear! why? Because our spiritual deliverance is not completely separated from physical deliverance - they are both "salvation".
I am a bit skeptical of your statement: "most of the salvation scriptures are telling us how we can be delivered here in time by obeying God's commandments." I am not sure exactly what you mean, and so I will sit back and listen to (watch!
) the discussion.
So I think you are right that their is a "spiritual salvation" and also a "physical deliverance". I have not studied it out, but my guess is that the difference will not always be crystal clear! why? Because our spiritual deliverance is not completely separated from physical deliverance - they are both "salvation".
I am a bit skeptical of your statement: "most of the salvation scriptures are telling us how we can be delivered here in time by obeying God's commandments." I am not sure exactly what you mean, and so I will sit back and listen to (watch!
) the discussion.-
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When the Lord calls a sinner to himself, he is convicted of his sins by the Spirit. If the sinner responds with repentance to that call and believes the word of the Lord being illuminated by the Holy Spirit; and confesses with his mouth, then faith like a mustard seed is planted by Jesus into that person's soul. The Holy Spirit, who like Jesus, comes from the Father; then takes up residence in that person's spirit, making him to be one with the Lord forever.
TY Jesus both now and forever, amen!
TY Jesus both now and forever, amen!
No Roger, I believe that you are undermining the effectiveness of Christ's sacrifice. I am saying that Christ died on the cross as a sacrifice to God for God's acceptance and not for mans acceptance and every person that he died for will live with him in heaven without the loss of even one of those that he died ( John 6:37) proving 100% his effect. I think you are saying (correct me if I am not on the right tract with your thinking). that Christ died for all mankind to be saved and fell short of accomplishing his purpose. As I stated, Salvation ,according to the Greek translation, means "deliverance". When we are saved eternally , we are delivered from going to an everlasting punishment. When we pray to God to heal a sickness, and he does, we are delivered (saved) from having to live with that particular illness. I do not think that you can make the scriptures harmonize without understanding that most of the salvation scriptures is talking about being delivered here on earth
so, correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that eternal salvation is depending upon a person to respond, repent, and believe? Is not that eternal salvation by works? John 12:47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not, for I came not to judge the world (the Greek meaning according to Thayer's definition in this scripture of the word WORLD means "pertaining to the world of believers") , but to save the world
I agree, that all mankind would be lost forever if Christ had not died for those that God gave to him to die for, and Christ completed his Fathers will, in that, he died for them and every person that he died for will live in heaven with him, without the loss of even one, (John 6:37). I know that this seems like a hard doctrine for you to understand, but so it was when men heard it out of Jesus's own mouth, God does not love all mankind. Rev 3:19, As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Psalms 73:5, Talking about the wicked, They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they PLAGUED like other men (plagued according to Strong's definition means DIVINELY PUNISHED.) If God chastens every one that he loves, why would he not chasten the wicket? Rom 9:13, As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. The scriptures must harmonize without any contradictions.
E
Your to stuck on fatalism/Calvinisn to see the truth.
Jesus died for the world. He died so that whoever sees and believes in him will have eternal life.
He died for the lost too. When they go to hell. no one can blame him, he shut the mouths of all creation angelic or otherwise for eternity, because he died for those who he KNEW would reject him, and offered them salvation also.
No greater love has any man than he die for those he love, According to the word. God loves the world. not just a few select people.
Face it, In Gods eyes apart from the blood of Christ, You are wicked, you deserve hell. Stop putting yourself above other wicked people sayin gyour so special God chose you over them, (which is in reality what you are saying) its not true.
Jesus died for the world. He died so that whoever sees and believes in him will have eternal life.
He died for the lost too. When they go to hell. no one can blame him, he shut the mouths of all creation angelic or otherwise for eternity, because he died for those who he KNEW would reject him, and offered them salvation also.
No greater love has any man than he die for those he love, According to the word. God loves the world. not just a few select people.
Face it, In Gods eyes apart from the blood of Christ, You are wicked, you deserve hell. Stop putting yourself above other wicked people sayin gyour so special God chose you over them, (which is in reality what you are saying) its not true.
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ROMANS 8:13.
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through The Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
1COR. 6:20.
For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
the above scripture is so often ignored by those who feel that there is no reason to honor the
precious temple that Jesus has blessed us with, but we are to take the uttermost care
of it as an out-ward-Spiritual-example of honoring our Saviour and His bodily sacrifice...
the physical and Spiritual must go hand-in-hand as part of all of a Christian's walk and witness -
challenging? yes of course - doable? yes of course, when combined with our Love and dedication...
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through The Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
1COR. 6:20.
For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
the above scripture is so often ignored by those who feel that there is no reason to honor the
precious temple that Jesus has blessed us with, but we are to take the uttermost care
of it as an out-ward-Spiritual-example of honoring our Saviour and His bodily sacrifice...
the physical and Spiritual must go hand-in-hand as part of all of a Christian's walk and witness -
challenging? yes of course - doable? yes of course, when combined with our Love and dedication...
A clear example of the Greek word "soteria" (salvation) being used for physical deliverance is in Philippians 1:19 - where Paul says - "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer" - Paul does not mean he is gong to be spiritually saved, but likely he means that he thinks through their prayers he will be delivered from prison.
So I think you are right that their is a "spiritual salvation" and also a "physical deliverance". I have not studied it out, but my guess is that the difference will not always be crystal clear! why? Because our spiritual deliverance is not completely separated from physical deliverance - they are both "salvation".
I am a bit skeptical of your statement: "most of the salvation scriptures are telling us how we can be delivered here in time by obeying God's commandments." I am not sure exactly what you mean, and so I will sit back and listen to (watch!) the discussion.
So I think you are right that their is a "spiritual salvation" and also a "physical deliverance". I have not studied it out, but my guess is that the difference will not always be crystal clear! why? Because our spiritual deliverance is not completely separated from physical deliverance - they are both "salvation".
I am a bit skeptical of your statement: "most of the salvation scriptures are telling us how we can be delivered here in time by obeying God's commandments." I am not sure exactly what you mean, and so I will sit back and listen to (watch!
) the discussion.
The inspired scriptures prove themselves and we do not have to depend on other man's writings. You have ignored the scriptures that I have given to you, Why? It would help me respond to you, if you would give scriptures to back up your statements. How can you have a bible discussion without using bible scriptures? Do you not read all scriptures without avoiding those that you do not know how to explain?
E
I have not ignored anything man, In fact, it is you who continues to ignore the scripture I gave you, which is the reason for your fatalistic view of God, which I may add, Is not good for his character.
oh really? Dude I have given you multiple scriptures and now your gonna say I have given you none. wow man, You keep digging deeper.
of course when you pick and chose verses out of context like you do. and ignore the verses people give you which show otherwise, I can see why you would do such a thing, Your not the first person to attempt this kind of foolery.
oh really? Dude I have given you multiple scriptures and now your gonna say I have given you none. wow man, You keep digging deeper.
of course when you pick and chose verses out of context like you do. and ignore the verses people give you which show otherwise, I can see why you would do such a thing, Your not the first person to attempt this kind of foolery.
In Rom 8:13, Every one that is born of the Spirit, though their sins have been forgiven, do still carry their sinful nature with them until they die a natural death, if we do not mortify the deeds of our flesh we can spiritually die from our fellowship with God. Paul states this fact in Galations by saying, That, that I would do, I do not, and that, that I would not do, I do. All children of God has a battle within themselves, the flesh against the Spirit.
E
well I already know the answers you will give in response the the verses, but here goes. You said I did not use scripture but here are 4 I used whcih anyone who knows the word would know they are the word of God and not made up stuff.
1. I said jesus died for the world. can you tell me what scripture that is?
2. I said Jesus died that whoever believes wil be given eternal life. Can you tell me what scripture that is?
3. I said it was the will of the father that whoever sees the son and believes in him, will never die, be given eternal life, and be resurrected by him, Can you tell me that scripture?
4. I used the passage which says no greater love has any man, do you know where that is?
of course these are just 4 examples. Yet you said I did not use scripture. which can only lead me to wonder if your reading anything I post at all.
1. I said jesus died for the world. can you tell me what scripture that is?
2. I said Jesus died that whoever believes wil be given eternal life. Can you tell me what scripture that is?
3. I said it was the will of the father that whoever sees the son and believes in him, will never die, be given eternal life, and be resurrected by him, Can you tell me that scripture?
4. I used the passage which says no greater love has any man, do you know where that is?
of course these are just 4 examples. Yet you said I did not use scripture. which can only lead me to wonder if your reading anything I post at all.