regenerated
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
In order to keep 2 Pet 3:9 in context, we have to consider who Peter is talking to. We find in 2 Pet 1:1 that he is talking to " them that have obtained like precious faith". Peter is giving them a warning and is including himself by using the word "us-ward". not willing that any ( of those with like precious faith ) should perish ( lose their fellowship with God ), but that all (of those he is talking to ) should come to repentance. The "all men" in 1 Tim 2:4 are the same as the "all" ( men of like precious faith ) found in 2 Pet 3:9. they can be delivered (saved) here on earth, by coming unto a knowledge of the truth, they are already eternally delivered. The same example is used in Romans the 10th chapter.
I have seen Calvinists explain away those verses like that before. I don't buy it.
The fact that Peter is writing to "them that have obtained like precious faith" does not mean that "any" in 2 Pet 3:9 is referring to saved people. The people Peter is writing to are already saved. Why would God not be willing that any of them should perish?
This is merely an assertion, with no proof.
That verse does not say what you claim. There is no "here on earth" in the verse. Also, it does not say they will be saved BY coming to a knowledge of the truth. God wants all men to be saved AND come to a knowledge of the truth.
That is just another assertion, with no proof.
(I know you claim to never have read anything by Calvin. But what you are putting forth is Calvinism)
The fact that Peter is writing to "them that have obtained like precious faith" does not mean that "any" in 2 Pet 3:9 is referring to saved people. The people Peter is writing to are already saved. Why would God not be willing that any of them should perish?
This is merely an assertion, with no proof.
That verse does not say what you claim. There is no "here on earth" in the verse. Also, it does not say they will be saved BY coming to a knowledge of the truth. God wants all men to be saved AND come to a knowledge of the truth.
That is just another assertion, with no proof.
(I know you claim to never have read anything by Calvin. But what you are putting forth is Calvinism)
E
Typical, you skipped quite a few verses, why did you not post it all?
John 6:
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
If your not going to be honest, do not expect people to respect you
John 6:
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
If your not going to be honest, do not expect people to respect you
I think most verses have "begotten" and this phrase is mostly used
in a wrong way. There is a big difference in being begotten and born.
The bible says to repent and believe the gospel.
Then God may send the gift of the Holy Spirit.
At this time we are begotten, and become a new creation.
Just like when a man gets a woman preagent, and [conceives]
We can look at the physical process and see the spiritual.
So now in a way we are feed and protected by the mother[the church].
We are heirs, but not yet inherited eternal life,
as flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom.
When we are Born into Gods Family, at the resurrection [a birth],
then no longer flesh and blood, but spirit beings.
A new nation of kings and priests will be born-at-once
in a wrong way. There is a big difference in being begotten and born.
The bible says to repent and believe the gospel.
Then God may send the gift of the Holy Spirit.
At this time we are begotten, and become a new creation.
Just like when a man gets a woman preagent, and [conceives]
We can look at the physical process and see the spiritual.
So now in a way we are feed and protected by the mother[the church].
We are heirs, but not yet inherited eternal life,
as flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom.
When we are Born into Gods Family, at the resurrection [a birth],
then no longer flesh and blood, but spirit beings.
A new nation of kings and priests will be born-at-once
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Every lost soul has sufficient light to see hear and respond to the gospel. Those who repeatedly reject the gospel are given over to a reprobate heart and their condemnation is sealed.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Every lost soul has sufficient light to see hear and respond to the gospel. Those who repeatedly reject the gospel are given over to a reprobate heart and their condemnation is sealed.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
-
1
- Show all
yes, that is what I think the scriptures teach, Eph 2:3-5, Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others (this verse explains that we were just like the natural man explained in 1 Cor 2:14). But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sin (same as the man in 1 Cor 2:14), hath quickened (born again of the Spirit) us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) The natural man has nothing to do with his being born again.
-
1
- Show all
E
I think we are about done, You are set in your mind, and have no desire to discuss anything. If you have scripture to prove me wrong, feel free.. Otherwise, all you are doing is making a strawman argument which basically shows you can not respond, or are just trying to make excuses why you can;t respond.
Seen it before to many times, Your not the first to use this tactic.
Seen it before to many times, Your not the first to use this tactic.
yes, God has foreknowledge. Psalms 14:2-3, The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one. That's the reason, by his foreknowledge of knowing that no man would seek after him, that he chose an elect people before he ever created the earth (Eph 1:4) and gave them to his son to adopt by paying the price for them by his obedience on the cross. The scriptures does support the fact that God allows man to chose for himself how he lives here on earth,We make choices every day, but Eph 2:5 tells us that man does not make the choice of his being born again,
-
1
- Show all
E
Sorry, But that is not correct.
Again, Jesus gave the reason.
1. That all who see and believe will be given eternal life (john 6)
2. That whoever believes in him will never die, but have eternal life (john 3)
Your correct. None will come to him apart from his drawing, But as Jesus in john yet again said, The HS convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgment, Not just the elect. the world. You have to change alot of bible to believe in fatalism, and believe God is not a god of true love, but of selective love, period.
Again, Jesus gave the reason.
1. That all who see and believe will be given eternal life (john 6)
2. That whoever believes in him will never die, but have eternal life (john 3)
Your correct. None will come to him apart from his drawing, But as Jesus in john yet again said, The HS convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgment, Not just the elect. the world. You have to change alot of bible to believe in fatalism, and believe God is not a god of true love, but of selective love, period.
-
1
- Show all