Why Satan loves Replacement Theology

[OneFaith]

If this is true, All OT jews will be in heaven, This is not true.


This is a future prophesy where 144000 new jewish missionaries will be saved, and spread out to respread the gospel. this has nothing to do wiht the OT.


God did not promise abraham and his descendents a spiritual land, he promised them a physical land, the land of canaan, Thus spiritual israel can not be the fulfillment.

God promised heaven to all people. jew and gentile in all ages, including the age of Israel (see Jonah and the great gentile city who repented at his teaching)



And they were are have been, But that has nothign to do with the land God promised HIM AND HIS PEOPLE.


Abraham is the father of anyone who will be in heaven, And your right only God can baptise us into his family (Oh wait, your talking water baptism arent you? If you are!! Heresy!



God promised multiple times in the OT and Paul reiterated that promise, and revelations confirms them

1. Isreal will be scattered all over the earth due to her sin (fulfilled 70 AD)
2. Israel will be restored when the times of the gentile has been fulfilled, when she repents and reciever her messiah
3. Israel will be side by side with all gentile nations, and all of them will worship the king, whoever does not, God will withhold rain from them for 1 year.

sorry, But scģripture does not support replacement theology
3.

I wish I knew how to lay out quote response to quote like you do, maybe you need a computer. I really like how you were able to do that.

No, i did not say every single Israélite from the old testament- just 12,000 from each tribe. 600,000 came out of egypt alone- and that is counting only the men. If you add in women and children that number has to at least double (1,200,000)- which is way more than 144,000. So yeah, clearly it was not every Israélite.

And then you are saying the 144,000 are futuristic Israélite missionaries. First of all that would mean none of the israelites were saved from the old testament. Where in the bible does it say that the 144,000 are futuristic missionaries? This passage in Revelation is telling us how many will be saved on judgement day- 144,000 from the old testament and too many to count from the new testament.

By saying all nations, yes He was saying spiritual not physical. And it is throughout the entire old testament. Noahs ark represented new testament baptism. The physically perfect lamb represented the spiritually perfect Lamb of God.

Isaiah 28:16 makes reference to Christ being the cornerstone of Zion- either that means spiritually or Christ will turn into a physical stone in a physical land.

You can say I'm wrong all you want, but you are the one not matching scripture or context.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I wish I knew how to lay out quote response to quote like you do, maybe you need a computer. I really like how you were able to do that.

Select any text within the message you want to reply to and then click the Reply thing at bottom right of selected text. You can keep doing that over and over.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wish I knew how to lay out quote response to quote like you do, maybe you need a computer. I really like how you were able to do that.at the end of a place you want to put a break.

type /quote, and surround this with [ ] ie, [ / q u o t e ] No spaces

if you want to quote a part of a post. then surround the part you wish to quote with [ q u o t e ] and end with [ / q u o t e ] (no spaces)

it can get confusing, and takes practice..

No, i did not say every single Israélite from the old testament- just 12,000 from each tribe. 600,000 came out of egypt alone- and that is counting only the men. If you add in women and children that number has to at least double (1,200,000)- which is way more than 144,000. So yeah, clearly it was not every Israélite.

I know you did not, sorry if you misunderstood me,

I was just making a point, if your right and salvation WAS by birthright, then all jews would be saved.

Actually only 2 people who left Egypt entered the promised land, and one (moses) did not because he sinned, the rest because of unbelief. thus they could not be part of the 144,000, in fact, your the first person I have ever heard say this, may I ask you where you came up with this belief? who taught you this?

And then you are saying the 144,000 are futuristic Israélite missionaries. First of all that would mean none of the israelites were saved from the old testament. Where in the bible does it say that the 144,000 are futuristic missionaries? This passage in Revelation is telling us how many will be saved on judgement day- 144,000 from the old testament and too many to count from the new testament.

I am confused. what does there being 144000 people saved out of Israel in the future have to do with people in the past, even jews today being saved? I see no correlation.

God is just saying, at that time, during tribulation, 144000 people from 12 tribes will come to christ, and spread the gospel. Nothing more, nothing less in my view.

By saying all nations, yes He was saying spiritual not physical. And it is throughout the entire old testament. Noahs ark represented new testament baptism. The physically perfect lamb represented the spiritually perfect Lamb of God.

yes, all nations, In you shall all nations be blessed.

But that was only ONE part of the covenant, there were other parts of Things God GAVE abraham and his family.

Ark = baptism? What? the ark represents Christ, who in Gods anger destroys the wicked, yet in love saved those who have been saved, Noah represents us, and the ark represents the cross.

Isaiah 28:16 makes reference to Christ being the cornerstone of Zion- either that means spiritually or Christ will turn into a physical stone in a physical land.

IS 28 is a warning to Israel and Edom. Not sure what that has to do with future prophesy concerning Isreal.

Jesus is called the cornerstone of the church, and he is, But that has nothign to do with Israel or Gods promise to Isreal. so again, I do not see the correlation here.

EZ 37 says God will restore the two kingdoms of Isreal and make them one again, This is after they have been completely removed from the land given to her (occurred in 70 AD) and after she was gone for so long, it was like she had dry bones buried in a grave (even during Babylon, she had a presence in Isreal. and was not dead) That she will again dwell in the land where her fathers dwelt (not a spiritual land, but a physical land) and that through this all nations will know who the true messiah is, and worship him..

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.


24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26 Moreover I will [c]make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” ’ ”

This is physical not spiritual God will muliply them means people are still being born into them. They are returned to the land given to jacob (physical israel) and the nations will know.. I do not think there will be nations in heaven, we will be one nation.

You can say I'm wrong all you want, but you are the one not matching scripture or context.

yes I can, but that does not matter, or is it my job,

however, I do pray you look to see what is said, and see WHY I am saying it, Because you are not seeing what scripture says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Select any text within the message you want to reply to and then click the Reply thing at bottom right of selected text. You can keep doing that over and over.

if this is how they replace the old quote button, that would be nice.. Its a pain to quote the long way all the time.

 

[OneFaith]

type /quote, and surround this with [ ] ie, [ / q u o t e ] No spaces

if you want to quote a part of a post. then surround the part you wish to quote with [ q u o t e ] and end with [ / q u o t e ] (no spaces)

it can get confusing, and takes practice..


I know you did not, sorry if you misunderstood me,

I was just making a point, if your right and salvation WAS by birthright, then all jews would be saved.

Actually only 2 people who left Egypt entered the promised land, and one (moses) did not because he sinned, the rest because of unbelief. thus they could not be part of the 144,000, in fact, your the first person I have ever heard say this, may I ask you where you came up with this belief? who taught you this?



I am confused. what does there being 144000 people saved out of Israel in the future have to do with people in the past, even jews today being saved? I see no correlation.

God is just saying, at that time, during tribulation, 144000 people from 12 tribes will come to christ, and spread the gospel. Nothing more, nothing less in my view.


yes, all nations, In you shall all nations be blessed.

But that was only ONE part of the covenant, there were other parts of Things God GAVE abraham and his family.

Ark = baptism? What? the ark represents Christ, who in Gods anger destroys the wicked, yet in love saved those who have been saved, Noah represents us, and the ark represents the cross.



IS 28 is a warning to Israel and Edom. Not sure what that has to do with future prophesy concerning Isreal.

Jesus is called the cornerstone of the church, and he is, But that has nothign to do with Israel or Gods promise to Isreal. so again, I do not see the correlation here.

EZ 37 says God will restore the two kingdoms of Isreal and make them one again, This is after they have been completely removed from the land given to her (occurred in 70 AD) and after she was gone for so long, it was like she had dry bones buried in a grave (even during Babylon, she had a presence in Isreal. and was not dead) That she will again dwell in the land where her fathers dwelt (not a spiritual land, but a physical land) and that through this all nations will know who the true messiah is, and worship him..

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.


24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26 Moreover I will [c]make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” ’ ”

This is physical not spiritual God will muliply them means people are still being born into them. They are returned to the land given to jacob (physical israel) and the nations will know.. I do not think there will be nations in heaven, we will be one nation.



yes I can, but that does not matter, or is it my job,

however, I do pray you look to see what is said, and see WHY I am saying it, Because you are not seeing what scripture says.

This is getting quite lengthy, so we need to go over one point at a time, and I have to leave soon.

The physical birthright made them God's people, but not all of God's people will be saved just because they're God's people. God's people are the righteous, and the bible says "If it is difficult for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" Like you said, out of the original 600,000+ that were called out of Egypt only two made it to the promise land that represents heaven. "Many are called, but few are chosen." My point is that they are no longer God's people (unless they become so through baptism). In order to be God's people today you must do so spiritually- not physically be related to Abraham.

I gotta go, be back later.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is getting quite lengthy, so we need to go over one point at a time, and I have to leave soon.

The physical birthright made them God's people, but not all of God's people will be saved just because they're God's people. God's people are the righteous, and the bible says "If it is difficult for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" Like you said, out of the original 600,000+ that were called out of Egypt only two made it to the promise land that represents heaven. "Many are called, but few are chosen." My point is that they are no longer God's people (unless they become so through baptism). In order to be God's people today you must do so spiritually- not physically be related to Abraham.

I gotta go, be back later.

ok, lets start here (I will not be able to repond to much more tonight, may have to wait till tomorrow. if I do not see you until then, have a great night

Physical birthright gave them ownership of the land of Isreal as a nation (although, as stated in Lev 26, If they sinned, God would punish them by removing them from the land and allowing her enemy to enjoy it, (happened three times, 1 By assyria when they punished th enorhtern kingdom, 1 By babylon, yet she was partially restored after this, and finally, the lower kingdom was complely banished as the norhtern was in 70 AD by rome) But if she repented, God would remember his covenant with the fathers, and remember the land. (As I showed you in Ezek 37 and there are many places. this will happen at a future date when Israel repents. not before.

Physical birthright never got one person saved, No one was saved just because they were descendants of abraham, All people had to get saved via the seed. The OT looked forward to this blessing, not knowing how it would be accomplished (paul called this the mystery) the NT looks back at the fulfilment (christ)

 

[yellowcanary]

For approx. the last 1900 years, (since 70 A.D.), God's promise to bless those who bless Israel was in a "holding pattern" then ? ... until 1948 ? I thought all of God's promises to Israel were fulfilled ? And of course, they were. Until people understand who the Israel of God truly is today, they will continue to flounder.

Joshua 21:45 .. Not one of all the LORD's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.

​

 

[CS1]

is not Israel covered with a veil to prevent them at this time from believing ? Are they not the apple of His eye?
when I read the Old Testament God always preserved His people even in judgement. Cannot the true root return ? And does not the word of God say just that?

 

[posthuman]

Sometimes only 2 verses are needed. At times the clearest to the truth need be revealed.

Praise be to Yah (Haileleujeh) that he has not cast away his people Israel (12 tribes, not just Judah)

He is Longsuffering to all

He even blesses with rain the most sinful
He has a plan for them too

Maybe they will be as Paul
A most sinful
A most forgiven
A most Champion for Good
When they are saved

they will weep, seeing and knowing Who it is, the One they have pierced. but He will wipe away every tear - and we all will go in rejoicing with thanksgiving in our hearts

For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may receive mercy, for God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all.
(Romans 11:30-32) ​

 

[posthuman]

There were two covenants. The one in Genesis 15 has nothing to do with Israel.

here's another covenant:

“All the offerings of the holy gifts, which the sons of Israel offer to the LORD, I have given to you and your sons and your daughters with you, as a perpetual allotment. It is an everlasting covenant of salt before the LORD to you and your descendants with you.” ​

Then the LORD said to Aaron, ​

“You shall have no inheritance in their land nor own any portion among them; I am your portion and your inheritance among the sons of Israel."​

(Numbers 18:19-20)​

and another:

Then Abijah stood on Mount Zemaraim, which is in the hill country of Ephraim, and said, ​

“Listen to me, Jeroboam and all Israel: do you not know that the LORD God of Israel gave the rule over Israel forever to David and his sons by a covenant of salt?"
(2 Chronicles 13:4-5)​

​

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​

 

[Nehemiah6]

There were two covenants. The one in Genesis 15 has nothing to do with Israel.

Really? Looks like you failed to carefully study the Abrahamic Covenant. Please review it again very carefully, since Israel is clearly and definitely within that Covenant.

GENESIS 15
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed [Israel] have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

 

[posthuman]

I wish I knew how to lay out quote response to quote like you do, maybe you need a computer. I really like how you were able to do that.

it's very tedious to do on a mobile, yes. selecting text and precise cursor placement is fiddly with a touchscreen and you get fewer formatting options if you don't request desktop site.

if you highlight just a bit of a person's post, a 'reply' button shows up, and it puts a quote of just what you've highlighted into the reply box. you can do it multiple times to put multiple, individual quotes into the reply box, and then write out your own responses around them.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Really? Looks like you failed to carefully study the Abrahamic Covenant. Please review it again very carefully, since Israel is clearly and definitely within that Covenant.

GENESIS 15
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed [Israel] have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Seed refers to Christ. Abram asked for surety, so GOD cut a covenant promising to give the land to his seed. If seed is Israel, how is that surety?

 

[posthuman]

if this is how they replace the old quote button, that would be nice.. Its a pain to quote the long way all the time.

yes, it is -- it's really a nice improvement. you can selectively quote multiple different posts easily now, without manually editing and writing the quote tags, and even go between pages to quote something from page 3 and then navigate to page 5, and the reply you've started is *usually* remembered.

 

[vic1980]

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

Please examine carefully , if the gentiles are grafted in Romans 11:17 , So if the Gentiles are grafted in who are thee 144,000 from the twelve tribes.

There are believing Jews today that preach upon Messiah , to unbelieving Jews. Note this in your notepads please , there are Believing Gentiles preaching to unbelieving Gentiles.

These movements are ONE in Jesus Christ , have been working the field , and will continue until the LORD returns.

I don't understand how people were trick into believing the Jewish people that believed in Christ suddenly no longer exist ???


Shalom

 

[trofimus]

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Please examine carefully , if the gentiles are grafted in Romans 11:17 , how can the gentiles be thee 144,000 from the twelve tribes.

There are believing Jews today that preach upon Messiah , to unbelieving Jews. Note this in your notepads please , there are Believing Gentiles preaching to unbelieving Gentiles.

These movements that are ONE in Jesus Christ , have been working the field , and will continue until the LORD returns.


Shalom

Nobody is claiming that there is no believing Jew. There are few.

The discussion is more about "how does the people of God look like today", if its the physical nation called Israel in the Middle East or if its the church (the spiritual nation worldwide).

 

[vic1980]

Nobody is claiming that there is no believing Jew. There are few.

The discussion is more about "how does the people of God look like today", if its the physical nation called Israel in the Middle East or if its the church (the spiritual nation worldwide).

Thanks trofimus for clarifying , i guess i got caught up with reading the other replies than sticking to the main thread original purpose. I can only state one thing why thee physical nation has to be presented at this hour , and that is to serve it purpose for when the two witnesses are killed by the Beast. In order to fulfill one of many prophecy.

But then that might create another discussion , upon who are the two witnesses but put this into perspective at the moment , if thee physical nation is not present then this prophecy cannot be fulfilled.

Revelation 11:17 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Shalom

 

[trofimus]

Revelation 11:17 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Shalom

We would probably had a discussion about who are "them" - whether physical Jews or Christians

Also, if it happened long time ago or if its in the future. Or if its a general statement for long periods of time.

 

[garee]

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

Please examine carefully , if the gentiles are grafted in Romans 11:17 , So if the Gentiles are grafted in who are thee 144,000 from the twelve tribes.

There are believing Jews today that preach upon Messiah , to unbelieving Jews. Note this in your notepads please , there are Believing Gentiles preaching to unbelieving Gentiles.

These movements are ONE in Jesus Christ , have been working the field , and will continue until the LORD returns.

I don't understand how people were trick into believing the Jewish people that believed in Christ suddenly no longer exist ???


Shalom

yes it has nothing to do with the flesh as that seen the temporal

A Jew is a Jew inwardly born of the Spirit of Christ not one outwardly in respect to the temporal flesh( not born again of the Spirit of Christ)

The new name God promised to name the inward born again Jew is "Christian" .a word that denotes his bride typified by a heavenly city the new Jerusalem as residents thereof .

The 144, 000 thousand as a signified represents language a unknown . She Christ's wife is made up of gates (12) to represent the authority of God to represent tribes with apostles 12 to represent the walls.

One spiritual house made up of many lively stones nither Jew nor Gentile but a new creation

 

[garee]

Seed refers to Christ. Abram asked for surety, so GOD cut a covenant promising to give the land to his seed. If seed is Israel, how is that surety?

Yes seed as in one referring to the spiritual unseen seed... the incorruptible by which men are born again from above And not many referring to the seeds of man (Abraham) as that seen the temporal


1 Peter 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Two kinds of propmies .One dependent on God alone and another the work of man hands . The second was broken .The first cannot.