What must I do to be saved

[Ralph-]

For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared. Those absolved of guilt would have to be tried again and found guilty. God would have to reverse the sentence handed down from the divine bench....

Etc.

Read this:

23“For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24“When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25“But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.26“So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27“And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28“But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29“So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30“But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31“So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32“Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33‘Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34“And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35“My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.” "-Matthew 25:23-35


The forgiveness the king gave the man was revoked. Jesus said this how it is in the kingdom of heaven, and that his heavenly father will do the same thing to you if you do not forgive others as you have been forgiven.

 

[theanointedsinner]

sin can offend us, yet there's strange sinful desires to like what offends us

 

[Jewel5712]

Read this:

23“For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24“When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25“But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.26“So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27“And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28“But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29“So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30“But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31“So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32“Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33‘Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34“And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35“My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.” "-Matthew 25:23-35


The forgiveness the king gave the man was revoked. Jesus said this how it is in the kingdom of heaven, and that his heavenly father will do the same thing to you if you do not forgive others as you have been forgiven.

Unforgiveness can definately hinder ones walk but salvation remains..again..we have free will...unforgivess can hinder the blessings God want to bestow on us etc..thats why..before we take the communion elements..we are to clear out heads hearts..make ammends with others etc...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Not again Ralp, you just inserted "contiinue to believe" where the scriptures says "believe" on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Acts 16:31 Romans 1:16 is not about continuing to believe for salvation. John 1:12 says "believe" and scores of scritures that does say believe, trust, receive, faith in Christ alone.

I'm not sure I understand your point. In the verses you mentioned believe is in the present tense, which I think is what Ralph means by continuing to believe.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th soils have the word of God in them. Everyone who has the word of God in them is a believer. They have God's testimony in them:

"the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He (God) has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself"-1 John 5:9-10

Get it now?


Just because the testimony of God comes through a servant laboring in the building and field of God doesn't make it so it's not God sowing the word of his testimony through them. Your contention is not only meaningless to this discussion, it is also baseless.

I suspect that you will continue to be contentious about this so read the whole passage and see how John is contrasting the testimony of men with the testimony of the Holy Spirit, the testimony of God.

Jesus explained the parable of the sower to His disciples in Matt 13:18-23, Mark 4:14-20, Luke 8:11-15.

I will stand firm on His interpretation rather than run to folly with you.

You know the sower is not identified and yet you stubbornly and rebelliously continue to insist on supplying information not contained in the text.

Poor workmanship on your part. I leave to God the unenviable task of giving increase of His Word in your hard heart.

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry

I knew you would not be able to relate your contention to what we were talking about. I get very clearly that your contention has nothing to do with what mailmandan and I were talking about. Loud and clear. You're being contentious for the sake of being contentious.

Again, pointing out your error is not contentiousness on my part.

You acknowledging on the one hand that the sower is not identified in the parable (as you did in your post #474) and on the other hand stubbornly and rebelliously insisting that God is the sower is contentiousness on your part.

When will you learn the lesson and what will it take for you to learn it?

And I suspect what provoked your contention is you can't stand that I don't agree with your sacred 'once saved always saved' doctrine.

In your post #406, you requested:

Okay, your turn. Without projecting your predetermined 'once saved always saved' beliefs on the passage, show us in the passage itself where James can only be talking about people who never had faith before, and can't possibly be talking about someone who stopped having faith:

and I have honored your request that no "predetermined … beliefs" have been included in any post I have submitted in this thread. I have focussed only on the context of the Scripture being discussed.

The same cannot be said about you and you are the one who made the request. smh

 

[Jewel5712]

Jesus explained the parable of the sower to His disciples in Matt 13:18-23, Mark 4:14-20, Luke 8:11-15.

I will stand firm on His interpretation rather than run to folly with you.

You know the sower is not identified and yet you stubbornly and rebelliously continue to insist on supplying information not contained in the text.

Poor workmanship on your part. I leave to God the unenviable task of giving increase of His Word in your hard heart.

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry





Again, pointing out your error is not contentiousness on my part.

You acknowledging on the one hand that the sower is not identified in the parable (as you did in your post #474) and on the other hand stubbornly and rebelliously insisting that God is the sower is contentiousness on your part.

When will you learn the lesson and what will it take for you to learn it?





In your post #406, you requested:




and I have honored your request that no "predetermined … beliefs" have been included in any post I have submitted in this thread. I have focussed only on the context of the Scripture being discussed.

The same cannot be said about you and you are the one who made the request. smh

Gotta say i was kinda confused about his interpretation of the parable as well..but we should speak in love and tolerance...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Gotta say i was kinda confused about his interpretation of the parable as well..but we should speak in love and tolerance...

Yeah ... Jesus tells the meaning of the parable and it's best to follow Him.

By the way, very nice to make your acquaintance. Hope/pray you enjoy the forum. As you can see, sometimes our discussions can become heated ... just part of BDF.

 

[Ralph-]

Unforgiveness can definately hinder ones walk but salvation remains..again..we have free will...unforgivess can hinder the blessings God want to bestow on us etc..thats why..before we take the communion elements..we are to clear out heads hearts..make ammends with others etc...

Hinder? That's all? Jesus said you LOSE the forgiveness you have received if, on the day of reckoning, you are found to have not given that same forgiveness to others. That's way more than just being hindered by unforgiveness.

 

[Jewel5712]

Yeah ... Jesus tells the meaning of the parable and it's best to follow Him.

By the way, very nice to make your acquaintance. Hope/pray you enjoy the forum. As you can see, sometimes our discussions can become heated ... just part of BDF.

Sometimes i enjoy the debate..i learn and glean what i can..other times the topic gets too intense and i need to find something more light hearted and laugh

 

[Jewel5712]

Hinder? That's all? Jesus said you LOSE the forgiveness you have received if, on the day of reckoning, you are found to have not given that same forgiveness to others. That's way more than just being hindered by unforgiveness.

But lack of forgiveness has nothing to do with losing your salvation..often our pride and stubborness get in the way of forgiving others..definately cause to take to God in prayer..then go to the offended and ask forgiveness...

 

[Ralph-]

Jesus explained the parable of the sower to His disciples in Matt 13:18-23, Mark 4:14-20, Luke 8:11-15.

I will stand firm on His interpretation rather than run to folly with you.

Gee, for someone so concerned about the word of God, why did you blow off the scripture that answers your contention exactly?

I showed you the passage of scripture that answers your contention exactly and you still want to contend. This isn't about the word of God as you claim, is it? I'm confident that this is probably about being angry that I don't submit to your sacred 'once saved always saved' doctrine.

You know the sower is not identified and yet you stubbornly and rebelliously continue to insist on supplying information not contained in the text.

It's a Parable. The exact name or position of the worker who's sowing the word of God is not identified. But I showed you it's still God sowing his word. And you still want to be contentious.

Poor workmanship on your part. I leave to God the unenviable task of giving increase of His Word in your hard heart.

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry

You are rejecting the exact answer in scripture to your contention, and I'm the one being stubborn? Don't you realize you're condemning yourself?

Again, pointing out your error is not contentiousness on my part.

I showed you exactly in scripture where it says God is the one testifying and everyone who believes has God's testimony (sown) in their heart (1 John 5:9-10). And yet you're going to insist I'm the one in error here and you're not being contentious. You're joking, right?

You acknowledging on the one hand that the sower is not identified in the parable (as you did in your post #474) and on the other hand stubbornly and rebelliously insisting that God is the sower is contentiousness on your part.

The literal person that the testimony of God is sown through is not identified. Even if we did know IT'S STILL GOD DOING THE SOWING THROUGH THAT PERSON. READ 1 JOHN 5!

 

[Ralph-]

But lack of forgiveness has nothing to do with losing your salvation..often our pride and stubborness get in the way of forgiving others..definately cause to take to God in prayer..then go to the offended and ask forgiveness...

That's all fine, but the teaching of Jesus clearly says his Father will treat each one of us the way the king treated the unforgiving servant if we do what the forgiven servant did. How can you just decide that's not true?

I know you are victim of the church. And I know it's not easy being red-pilled. The first response is usually disbelief, even anger. But I'm telling you the Bible really does say the Father will withdraw his forgiveness from the forgiven person who is not forgiving. The church has been telling you a lie. You CAN lose the forgiveness of God. You can lose the justification you have received. I showed you where it says that.

The Galatians are another example of being able to lose the forgiveness of God in Christ. They were not in danger of that because they were being unforgiven towards others, but because they were turning away from Christ for justification. You really can slip into unbelief and lose the justification/salvation you now have.

 

[Ralph-]

In the verses you mentioned believe is in the present tense, which I think is what Ralph means by continuing to believe.

Bingo!

 

[Ralph-]

Yeah ... Jesus tells the meaning of the parable and it's best to follow Him.

And he says the 2nd type of soil believed. But the church is so sure he said the 2nd type of soil never believed.

 

[Ralph-]

Gotta say i was kinda confused about his interpretation of the parable as well..but we should speak in love and tolerance...

The 2nd type of soil believed. Jesus plainly said so. Yet, in complete contradiction to traditional 'once saved always saved' church teaching, this believing person stopped believing. So, in order to preserve it's doctrine of 'once saved always saved' the church has decided that the 2nd type of soil person didn't 'really' believe, even though Jesus plainly says he did. And I've answered all arguments that try to prove that belief was fake.

 

[shrume]

The 2nd type of soil believed. Jesus plainly said so. Yet, in complete contradiction to traditional 'once saved always saved' church teaching, this believing person stopped believing. So, in order to preserve it's doctrine of 'once saved always saved' the church has decided that the 2nd type of soil person didn't 'really' believe, even though Jesus plainly says he did. And I've answered all arguments that try to prove that belief was fake.

Do you understand Christianity, Ralph? Do you understand what God made available on the day of Pentecost? Do you understand the Christian new birth, the gift of the holy spirit, the guarantee of salvation? That we are sons of God, both by birth and by adoption?

Things changed at Pentecost.

(won’t answer any responses tonight, going to bed)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Here are the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ wherein He explains the meaning of the parable:

Matthew 13:

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

********************​

Mark 4:

14 The sower soweth the word.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

********************​

Luke 8:

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

The sower is not identified by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Do you really believe it is in your best interest to go beyond the words of Jesus?

The literal person that the testimony of God is sown through is not identified. Even if we did know IT'S STILL GOD DOING THE SOWING THROUGH THAT PERSON. READ 1 JOHN 5!

Apparently, the interpretation provided by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is insufficient for you.

 

[Jewel5712]

The 2nd type of soil believed. Jesus plainly said so. Yet, in complete contradiction to traditional 'once saved always saved' church teaching, this believing person stopped believing. So, in order to preserve it's doctrine of 'once saved always saved' the church has decided that the 2nd type of soil person didn't 'really' believe, even though Jesus plainly says he did. And I've answered all arguments that try to prove that belief was fake.

Its offucial..youre completely off your rocker..lol. You dont listen to other people but are entagled with confusion and wish to bring tgat on others dispite others showing you truth. Its not my job to argue with you but pray that God will open your eyes and give you wisdom and understanding as people have been patient with your continued stubborness...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't understand why Ralph is being opposed. He's completely right. It says that the 2nd type soil believes with joy, but falls away from the faith because of affliction and persecution. Their faith is tested and it fails. It isn't a deep enduring faith, because these aren't deep, committed people; they do things for the occasion. As long as believing is easy and it doesn't cost them anything, they are happy to believe for whatever worldly benefit they can derive from it. But when they stand to lose the good favor of men who oppose the gospel. they become offended with Christ, are again ensnared by the world and its ways, and abandon the faith.

​

And these are the ones sown on the rocky ground, who whenever they hear the word immediately receive it with joy. And they have no root in themselves, but are for the occasion only. Then when affliction or persecution comes because of the word, immediately they are ensnared. Mark 4:16-17​

​

And the ones upon the rock are the ones whenever they hear, with joy they receive the word; and these have no root, which for a time believe, and in time of testing they leave. Luke 8:13​

​

And what was sown on the rocky ground—this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. But he has no root in himself, but is only for the occasion, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he is ensnared. Matthew 13:20-21​

 

[Jewel5712]

I don't understand why Ralph is being opposed. He's completely right. It says that the 2nd type soil believes with joy, but falls away from the faith because of affliction and persecution. Their faith is tested and it fails. It isn't a deep enduring faith, because these aren't deep, committed people; they do things for the occasion. As long as believing is easy and it doesn't cost them anything, they are happy to believe for whatever worldly benefit they can derive from it. But when they stand to lose the good favor of men who oppose the gospel. they become offended with Christ, are again ensnared by the world and its ways, and abandon the faith.

​

And these are the ones sown on the rocky ground, who whenever they hear the word immediately receive it with joy. And they have no root in themselves, but are for the occasion only. Then when affliction or persecution comes because of the word, immediately they are ensnared. Mark 4:16-17​

​

And the ones upon the rock are the ones whenever they hear, with joy they receive the word; and these have no root, which for a time believe, and in time of testing they leave. Luke 8:13​

​

And what was sown on the rocky ground—this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. But he has no root in himself, but is only for the occasion, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he is ensnared. Matthew 13:20-21​

As humans..we have freedom of choice and can walk away from God but he patient waits and persues us like the prodigal son who returns home..but he doesnt take our salvation from us..thats thr whole beauty of the cross..so if salvation were lost due to our sin..we would ask forgivenesd..get our salvation back only to lose it again the next time we sin? Thats what Ralph is implying..due to our lack of forgiveness we lose our salvation..MY God doesnt play games that way..