What must I do to be saved

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reneweddaybyday said:
You agree that the sower is not identified in the parable of the soils.

Then you insist [again] that "God is doing the sowing here".
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Do you have Asperger's?
Your answer will help me to know how to deal with your contentiousness.



reneweddaybyday said:
Yet you mix metaphors between the parable of the soils and the parable of the tares.

And that is okay with you.
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I used the Parable of the Tares and the Wheat to show that good growth is caused by God's sowing, not the devil's. The growth in the 2nd soil is good growth. It just didn't last.
 
Ralph- said:
You're projecting your 'once saved always saved' bias on the passage by saying since there was not greater growth this person is not saved. The passage does not say that. You do.
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It looks like what they're saying is "once regenerated, always regenerated", and those who stop believing and fall away from the faith, or don't produce fruits of the kingdom, were never really regenerated in the first place. This is done IMO to protect the belief that salvation is by spiritual nature rather than by obedience to the faith.
 
Ralph- said:
I think you probably weren't following closely enough to what me and mailman were talking about.

He tried to say that since Jesus said all plants not planted by the Father will be uprooted shows that soil #2 was not planted by the Father and was, therefore, not saved. First of all, it's plain to see that it is God's work of planting that is going on in the Parable of the Sower. And secondly, the plants being spoken of that will be pulled up are not the same plantings being spoken of in the Parable of the Sower.
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In your Post #472, you inferred that I "want to go on record that it could have been the devil who sowed the seed in the 4th type of soil".

I never stated that.
I never inferred that.

All I did was tell you the sower is not identified in the parable of the soils.

The parable of the soils appears in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke. Neither Matthew, nor Mark, nor Luke said the sower was God.

You agree that the sower is not identified in your Post #474 and then in the next breath you stated "God is doing the sowing here".

You need to stop telling people what they are saying and listen to the point where you HEAR.

And you might even want to do that in your approach to Scripture.
 
Ralph- said:
It's interesting to see yet another Christian condemning himself as an unbeliever.
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Straw man argument. FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD in James chapter 2, yet "fruitless" faith represents a Christian in the parable of the soils? *Double standard.
 
mailmandan said:
Multiple translations in Luke 8:13 say "no root" and "no moisture" in Luke 8:6, yet you disagree with the word of God in order to accommodate your biased doctrine. When are you going to accept the truth?
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Context shows us he does not mean 'no root whatsoever' and 'no moisture whatsoever'. The word of God is growing in that soil. It can't do that if it literally has 'no' root and 'no' moisture. Obviously, he's saying it has little root and little moisture. I really didn't expect you to start acting like some other actors in this forum. I'm deeply disappointed in you. You're not the honest, reasonable person I thought you were. You're going into unreasonable defense mode like some other unnameable persons in this forum.
 
mailmandan said:
Straw man argument. FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD in James chapter 2, yet "fruitless" faith represents a Christian in the parable of the soils? *Double standard.
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How sad. You're defending the very Catholic doctrine you beat us up for (supposedly) having.
 
mailmandan said:
People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation. *There was shallow, temporary belief that had no root, lacked moisture, produced no fruit and withered away. *You are confusing soil #1 with soil #2 (Luke 8:6,13; Mark 4:5-6). *You need to be honest Ralph.
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You need to be honest then and admit God does NOT save everyone who calls on him. If you have rocky soil, or soil in which the worries of this life exist, God will not 'really' save you. You will just think he did.

The Parable is not about salvation. It's about fruitfulness. Believers can be saved in #2, #3, or #4 soil. The point is, they may not endure in their believing and be fruitful unless they mature to a #4 type soil. We don't start out in soil #4 maturity or else we're not 'really' saved. We grow up into it. That's the point. If we had to start out there to be saved NONE of us is saved. Not even you, dan.
 
mailmandan said:
Once again, in Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ALL of them. :) *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event in order to stress it's certainty. (y)
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Don't isolate this from the whole of scripture. The promise of glorification is only for those who believe and keep believing. The promise is that he will do what he says for those who believe. The promise is not that you will always believe.
 
reneweddaybyday said:
All I did was tell you the sower is not identified in the parable of the soils.

The parable of the soils appears in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke. Neither Matthew, nor Mark, nor Luke said the sower was God.
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You're being unnecessarily contentious. Whether it be through this person or that, when the good word is sown it is God doing the sowing. And I brought it up to defuse mailman's use of Jesus' statement about plants being pulled up to somehow show that soil#2 is unsaved soil. You really don't need to defend yourself here. It's not about you.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
...they're saying...those who stop believing and fall away from the faith, or don't produce fruits of the kingdom, were never really regenerated in the first place.
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What's particularly sad about this doctrine is you can never know if you're saved until you die and you see what side of the great chasm you are on because the testing to see if you'll fail and show yourself to not really be a believer doesn't end until you leave the body.

If only they knew even Calvin (from whom 'once saved always saved' came into the church) said there is no way to know if you are saved or not in this life. And that's supposed to be the doctrine of security and assurance. Really, people?

In the Bible, if you have believed and are continuing to believe you are secure in salvation and no one can move you. End of discussion. It's so simple it goes right over the head of these over-thought, carnal reasonings of man. But that is what the Bible says the truth will do. It will evade the wise man of the world in all his learning and wisdom.
 
Ralph- said:
Do you have Asperger's?
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Loaded question.




Ralph said:
Your answer will help me to know how to deal with your contentiousness.
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Someone pointing out your contradictory statements is "contentious"?




Ralph said:
I used the Parable of the Tares and the Wheat to show that good growth is caused by God's sowing, not the devil's. The growth in the 2nd soil is good growth. It just didn't last.
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God gives the increase to what is sown. The parable of the tares does not indicate who is the sower.

I know you want the sower to be God because you keep insisting that the sower is God. However, Scripture is silent as to the identity of the sower. Matthew, Mark, Luke, holy men who were moved by the Holy Spirit, did not identify the sower in the record.
 
reneweddaybyday said:
I know you want the sower to be God because you keep insisting that the sower is God. However, Scripture is silent as to the identity of the sower. Matthew, Mark, Luke, holy men who were moved by the Holy Spirit, did not identify the sower in the record.
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FWIW, there can only be one sower - man. Faith comes by hearing the word of GOD, whether spoken, or written, by men.
 
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