Easy Believism and Lordship Salvation (why both are false Gospels)

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7seasrekeyed said:
you consistently seem to twist what the op is saying in order to make a point you and he do not agree on

it's gettin old :cool:
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Your ranting is also getting old. It you who twisted the poster's words to claim that there was hatred etc.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
And it is also a fact. Do you want me to dissect what was posted and show you that you made a false accusation against Adstar?
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let me save you the trouble oh thou who forbidest women to speak in the congregation...cause yeah...that is your main problem here

for one thing, I never mentioned hatred

for another, you like to latch on to someone and try to get them angry so you can report them

I am sure you will understand if I don't play that game with you

over n out

here's my post

you know, he said absolutely nothing whatsoever about being sinless

I find that when someone jumps to this conclusion they may be a struggle with some particular sin, they feel judged and then jump on someone who mentions turning away from your sin..as scripture actually says a converted person will do and they have the Holy Spirit to enable them to turn from sin

I have no idea if that applies to you, but it is an observation.

your post is just screaming anger and judgement. you make the op sound like he is personally directing what he said to you

if the shoe fits, wear it, but maybe don't go postal and claim he said things he never said or intended

why is that?

 
7seasrekeyed said:
let me save you the trouble oh thou who forbidest women to speak in the congregation...cause yeah...that is your main problem here

for one thing, I never mentioned hatred

for another, you like to latch on to someone and try to get them angry so you can report them

I am sure you will understand if I don't play that game with you

over n out

here's my post

you know, he said absolutely nothing whatsoever about being sinless

I find that when someone jumps to this conclusion they may be a struggle with some particular sin, they feel judged and then jump on someone who mentions turning away from your sin..as scripture actually says a converted person will do and they have the Holy Spirit to enable them to turn from sin

I have no idea if that applies to you, but it is an observation.

your post is just screaming anger and judgement. you make the op sound like he is personally directing what he said to you

if the shoe fits, wear it, but maybe don't go postal and claim he said things he never said or intended

why is that?
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amen
 
UnderGrace said:
How exactly does one submit to His Lordship, I have always wondered what this means in practical every day life?

Can you clarify?
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It simply means total obedience to Christ and a total repudiation of your former life as a sinning human being. It begins with immediate obedience to Christ's commandment to be baptized. And then it involves surrendering every aspect of your life to Christ, and forsaking that which is contrary to the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Here is a biblical example:

LUKE 19
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Zacchaeus was the chief tax collector and he had become rich through extortion. But when Christ invited Himself into his house, Zacchaeus believed on Him, received Him joyfully, and acknowledged Him as "Lord". Zacchaeus did not call Jesus "Master" (rabbi) but "Lord" (Kurios). And because of that, he genuinely repented and declared his repentance through a serious commitment to make proper restitution.

He immediately gave away half his wealth to the poor! And even though a thief was required to pay double of what he had stolen (Exod 22:7), Zacchaeus pledged to restore four time what he had stolen. He was applying this principle to his restitution: If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. (Exod 22:1)

And because of his repentance and his acknowledging of Jesus as "Lord", Christ declared that salvation had come to this house. Also, the repentant thief on the cross addressed Jesus as "Lord".
 
Nehemiah6 said:
It simply means total obedience to Christ and a total repudiation of your former life as a sinning human being.
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Name one person besides Christ who has fulfilled this obligation. Peter did not, nor did paul Can you name any?
 
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UnderGrace said:
No the problem is our cultural understanding of "change of mind" which is likened to or reduced to a simple change of taste or a shift in thinking or a change of preferences like a new preference of Marinara Sauce as opposed to Alfredo sauce.

The deeper, truer meaning of "metanoia" as a radical, profound, everlasting work in the mind eludes the western culture.

When we are called to change our mind/metanoia it is on God's terms not ours He knows and accepts the person who has truly come to the profound and deep understanding of Jesus as Saviour in mind and heart.
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Godly repentance isn't just a change of mind. That idea is due to a limitation imposed by the Greek language. Repentance is a change of mind and heart.

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Romans 2:5​
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Name one person besides Christ who has fulfilled this obligation. Peter did not, nor did paul Can you name any?
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Peter did not? Paul did not? Where did you come up with this nonsense? You are accusing the apostles of failure to obey Christ, which is a very serious false accusation. Peter repented of his betrayal, and Paul repented of his enmity to Christ and Christians. And they went on to be outstanding faithful apostles of Christ, and both were martyred.
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
It simply means total obedience to Christ and a total repudiation of your former life as a sinning human being. It begins with immediate obedience to Christ's commandment to be baptized. And then it involves surrendering every aspect of your life to Christ, and forsaking that which is contrary to the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Here is a biblical example:

LUKE 19
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Zacchaeus was the chief tax collector and he had become rich through extortion. But when Christ invited Himself into his house, Zacchaeus believed on Him, received Him joyfully, and acknowledged Him as "Lord". Zacchaeus did not call Jesus "Master" (rabbi) but "Lord" (Kurios). And because of that, he genuinely repented and declared his repentance through a serious commitment to make proper restitution.

He immediately gave away half his wealth to the poor! And even though a thief was required to pay double of what he had stolen (Exod 22:7), Zacchaeus pledged to restore four time what he had stolen. He was applying this principle to his restitution: If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. (Exod 22:1)

And because of his repentance and his acknowledging of Jesus as "Lord", Christ declared that salvation had come to this house. Also, the repentant thief on the cross addressed Jesus as "Lord".
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Total obedience? Wow. Nice try working your way to heaven
 
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man I get so fed up of people taking over the op's of other people

but it is revealing anyway :cool:
 
Nehemiah6 said:
Peter did not? Paul did not? Where did you come up with this nonsense? You are accusing the apostles of failure to obey Christ, which is a very serious false accusation. Peter repented of his betrayal, and Paul repented of his enmity to Christ and Christians. And they went on to be outstanding faithful apostles of Christ, and both were martyred.
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Lol well lets see, paul said he had not yet arrived, and called himself chief of all sinners (present tense not past tense) and paul had to call out peter for sin,

So again, can you name anyone who achieved sinless oerfection in this lifetime apart from Christ?
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
It simply means total obedience to Christ and a total repudiation of your former life as a sinning human being. It begins with immediate obedience to Christ's commandment to be baptized. And then it involves surrendering every aspect of your life to Christ, and forsaking that which is contrary to the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Here is a biblical example:

LUKE 19
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Zacchaeus was the chief tax collector and he had become rich through extortion. But when Christ invited Himself into his house, Zacchaeus believed on Him, received Him joyfully, and acknowledged Him as "Lord". Zacchaeus did not call Jesus "Master" (rabbi) but "Lord" (Kurios). And because of that, he genuinely repented and declared his repentance through a serious commitment to make proper restitution.

He immediately gave away half his wealth to the poor! And even though a thief was required to pay double of what he had stolen (Exod 22:7), Zacchaeus pledged to restore four time what he had stolen. He was applying this principle to his restitution: If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. (Exod 22:1)

And because of his repentance and his acknowledging of Jesus as "Lord", Christ declared that salvation had come to this house. Also, the repentant thief on the cross addressed Jesus as "Lord".
Click to expand...


When I read your post this is what I thought....

"Shallow Christianity is not cured by adding works to salvation"
Dr. M. Gambron

"Lordship Salvation" always ends up being about works to either prove, maintain or secure salvation which is not the Gospel.

Acknowledging Jesus as your personal Lord does not save.
 
UnderGrace said:
When I read your post this is what I thought....

"Shallow Christianity is not cured by adding works to salvation"
Dr. M. Gambron

"Lordship Salvation" always ends up being about works to either prove, maintain or secure salvation which is not the Gospel.

Acknowledging Jesus as your personal Lord does not save.
Click to expand...
I believe in a changed life after salvation, but I do not believe salvation was bound on works in any ways
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Godly repentance isn't just a change of mind. That idea is due to a limitation imposed by the Greek language. Repentance is a change of mind and heart.

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Romans 2:5​
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Again western culture has compartmentalized the two, rather than correctly understanding that the heart is the metaphysical component of a person, their inner/heart which consists of their emotions, mind, will etc.,

So not disagreeing but rather seeing the mind as part of the heart of the person as a connected entity.
 
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