Okay, so what do you think Paul is talking about here: 1 Cor. 14:1 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."
Speaking in tongues
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Anyone with a functional mind and vocal system can "preach" but it takes the gift of the Holy Spirit to prophesy. We cannot prophesy (legitimately) without the Holy Spirit... we must be empowered to do so. I don't consider preaching to be equivalent to prophesying.
In both Acts 11 and 21, Agabus prophesied. He did not preach. He simply told what would happen in the future, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. No preaching mentioned.
In both Acts 11 and 21, Agabus prophesied. He did not preach. He simply told what would happen in the future, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. No preaching mentioned.
If you wish to go strictly by Scripture, the spiritual gift of prophesy was speaking (or writing) by divine inspiration. It was the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet, not the prophet coming up with his own inventions.
This gift was withdrawn when the NT was completed. As Paul said: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail [CEASE] (1 Cor 13:8). So after the book of Revelation was completed, prophesies came to an end.
Therefore preachers, teachers, and evangelists are NOT prophets, and anyone claiming to be a prophet today is BOGUS.
Respectfully, while I agree that teachers, preachers, and evangelists are not prophets, there is no Scripture that supports your interpretation of 1 Cor 13:8. Perhaps you believe that all prophecy is equivalent to Scripture, as many do? That can be refuted with Scripture as well. Just find the Scripture prophesied by Saul and by Philip's daughters.
For people with the gift (or equipping) ministry of a prophet (Eph 4:11) that is true. But there is also the manifestation of prophesy (1 Cor 12:10), which is speaking "unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort" (1 Cor 14:3).
That is not true. There are still people with the ministry of a prophet, and any Christian can operate the manifestation of prophesy.
"Completing the NT" has nothing to do with it.
That is your assertion, and the assertion of most cessationists. There are still prophets in the body of Christ, and all of us need to hear words of edification, exhortation, and comfort. Speaking in tongues, prophesy (both the ministry and the manifestation), and and the manifestation of word of knowledge will cease when they are no longer needed (when that which is perfect [or the completeness] comes.)
That can be true. They are different ministries. A person with the ministry of an evangelist may not have the ministry of a prophet
While there are many false prophets today, you cannot make a blanket statement like that.
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7seasrekeyed
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who said you offended me? I didn't (shrugs)
I pray in tongues. I don't chant.
the assumptions being made by some in this thread...well...are assumptions
That is exactly what the Bible says:
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Pet 1:21).
Now please note what is stated in Heb 3:8: Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness.
But when we turn to Psalm 95:7,8, we find that it is David who wrote this under divine inspiration, therefore these words are attributed directly to the Holy Spirit: For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
How do we know David wrote this, but the words were the words of the Holy Spirit? See Hebrews 4:7, which was written under divine inspiration by Paul, so these are also the words of the Holy Spirit: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Umm, no, it isn't.
2 Peter 1:21 is addressing the source of prophecy; that's it, that's all. It does not state that every prophecy is Scripture. It restricts the subject to every prophecy of Scripture.
Hebrews may have been written by Paul, but that is not widely accepted.
As for the rest, it's irrelevant to your point. You've only proven that the source of prophecy is the Holy Spirit. You haven't come anywhere near proving your assertion that all prophecy is recorded in/as Scripture.
Once again, the prophecies given by Saul and by Philip's daughters are not recorded in Scripture, and because they aren't, your point is refuted.
Actually there is:
Jer 31:
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
The kingdom of God is a kingdom of priests- no priest prophesies to another priest, no priest heals another priest, no priest speaks in tongues to another priest, what you see today is exercise in futility.
I hope you are not trying to time-shift scripture written for yesterday and today, to sometime in the future.
Umm, no, it isn't.
2 Peter 1:21 is addressing the source of prophecy; that's it, that's all. It does not state that every prophecy is Scripture. It restricts the subject to every prophecy of Scripture.
Hebrews may have been written by Paul, but that is not widely accepted.
As for the rest, it's irrelevant to your point. You've only proven that the source of prophecy is the Holy Spirit. You haven't come anywhere near proving your assertion that all prophecy is recorded in/as Scripture.
Once again, the prophecies given by Saul and by Philip's daughters are not recorded in Scripture, and because they aren't, your point is refuted.
Saul and by Philip's daughters are not recorded in Scripture? What's meant by that... can we go above that which is written and add ?
Scripture, Gods word is prophecy . To prophesy is to declare the word of God, not Paul or any man. God is the one author and perfecter of scripture . Not Paul or any other person that God put his thoughts on those lips or hands moved to record as those who do declare His word. What God has joined together as one book of prophecy let no man call separate.
Since tongues are a language. Why not just say I pray using words easy to understand? And not that we pray mysteries as a form of wonder (faith principle)
Some say whatever sound comes from their mouth as some kind of outward evidence they have the Holy Spirit, as a secret language.
Anyone with a functional mind and vocal system can "preach" but it takes the gift of the Holy Spirit to prophesy. We cannot prophesy (legitimately) without the Holy Spirit... we must be empowered to do so. I don't consider preaching to be equivalent to prophesying.
In both Acts 11 and 21, Agabus prophesied. He did not preach. He simply told what would happen in the future, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. No preaching mentioned.
That is what he preached, or prophesied (declare the will of God) The Holy Spirit does the teaching. In that way one is our teacher in heaven not seen .and just as we are to call no man as that seen father on earth the same applies to the word teacher. Call no man teacher of earth we are all brothers and sisters, not masters as infallible teachers.
I am assuming, when you talk about the required number you are thinking of this:
Rev 7:4-8 KJV And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (5) Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. (6) Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. (7) Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. (8) Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Preaching is more than public speaking. Preaching requires the anointing of the Holy Spirit to bring a message from Gods word that is edifying to the body.Anyone with a functional mind and vocal system can "preach" but it takes the gift of the Holy Spirit to prophesy. We cannot prophesy (legitimately) without the Holy Spirit... we must be empowered to do so. I don't consider preaching to be equivalent to prophesying.
In both Acts 11 and 21, Agabus prophesied. He did not preach. He simply told what would happen in the future, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. No preaching mentioned.
There is no scriptural support for new revelation from God. The canon of scripture is complete.
God spoke to us in prophets in time past but has now spoken to us in His Son. Israel had a bad habit of killing the prophets God sent to them. If the fortune tellers of today were held to the biblical standard they too would soon be dead. If a prophecy is found to be untrue the prophet is to be killed. God never gives faulty prophecy.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
I think you know why
let's not be coy at this point
I do not think you actually know what some are saying. you certainly give no indication that you do
I have really tried to understand what you are saying, but in the end it seems you are saying what cessationists say
and frankly, saying some say whatever sound comes from their mouth is accepted as outward evidence they have the Holy Spirit is nothing but a slam and mocking what you have not experienced
you actually use the same criteria for judging as the people you are castigating
that is ironic and even more so that you and others give yourself a pass to do what you say others should not do
sorry, but I won't respond to you anymore with regards to tongues. no use in saying the same thing 400 different ways
My words were, "the prophecies given by Saul and Philip's daughters are not recorded in Scripture." It would be more valuable if you responded to what I actually wrote, instead of taking bits out of context.
You really aren't paying attention. For the umpteenth time, nobody (that I'm aware of) is claiming that present-day prophecy is additions to Scripture. So kindly stop asserting that is what people are claiming.
There are prophecies spoken of (by Saul and Philip's daughters) which are not recorded in Scripture, proving that not all prophecy is Scripture. The comments about faulty prophecy are completely irrelevant.