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Perhaps go to the pastor to figure out how he came to this conclusion and why.
Also determining the severity of the doctrine. If it's a smaller, non-essential issue then perhaps not be so concerned. If its something more vital then go and ask him.
Even if you still disagree you'll have a better understanding of what's going on, and less assumption. That way if you leave you'll have a fuller basis for leaving than simply "I disagree".
Also determining the severity of the doctrine. If it's a smaller, non-essential issue then perhaps not be so concerned. If its something more vital then go and ask him.
Even if you still disagree you'll have a better understanding of what's going on, and less assumption. That way if you leave you'll have a fuller basis for leaving than simply "I disagree".
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If it's a serious error I hit the door, usually during prayer time when eyes are closed and I can escape unnoticed. I don't even wait until the end of the service in the church I'm visiting anymore.
There's probably always going to be something in the official stance of a church that you don't agree with. With the matter of essential 'make or break' doctrines aside, if the focus of the church is on developing your personal relationship with God in your daily living and experiencing God and not just on forming the best and most accurate doctrines about God one can deal with the variances in non-essential beliefs among the congregants. But if a church exists because it thinks the sum total of the Christian faith is having the most accurate information about God to the exclusion of actually experiencing him you don't need to be in that church anyway.
There's probably always going to be something in the official stance of a church that you don't agree with. With the matter of essential 'make or break' doctrines aside, if the focus of the church is on developing your personal relationship with God in your daily living and experiencing God and not just on forming the best and most accurate doctrines about God one can deal with the variances in non-essential beliefs among the congregants. But if a church exists because it thinks the sum total of the Christian faith is having the most accurate information about God to the exclusion of actually experiencing him you don't need to be in that church anyway.
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hub and I have a friend who went to the same 'church' for decades with lots
of family and childhood friends attending - the pastor was getting up in
age and they hired a new, young one - one sunday while the new pastor was
preaching a sermon, she was following along with her Bible and
discovered that he was quite in error on the subject -
I might add, she was one of the most dedicated, loving, giving,
zealous sister in Christ that either one of us has ever known...
after the sermon was over she asked if she could speak with him
privately and they met in his office - when she pointed-out his
errors, he flat-out told her that if she didn't like his preaching
then she could just go somewhere else...
she was devastated and did go somewhere else after not
attending church for quite a while...
also it caused several breaches with family and friends -
a heart-breaking situation to say the least...
of family and childhood friends attending - the pastor was getting up in
age and they hired a new, young one - one sunday while the new pastor was
preaching a sermon, she was following along with her Bible and
discovered that he was quite in error on the subject -
I might add, she was one of the most dedicated, loving, giving,
zealous sister in Christ that either one of us has ever known...
after the sermon was over she asked if she could speak with him
privately and they met in his office - when she pointed-out his
errors, he flat-out told her that if she didn't like his preaching
then she could just go somewhere else...
she was devastated and did go somewhere else after not
attending church for quite a while...
also it caused several breaches with family and friends -
a heart-breaking situation to say the least...
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Unfortunately, in this circumstance it would be best for your friend to leave that church as you definitely don't want to be in a church where the pastor is not qualified to preach because his scriptural foundation is shaky. I really wouldn't have expected him to change the way he preaches based on a single complaint. Hopefully, he was considerate during the meeting and treated her with respect despite her apprehension on his apparent lack of biblical understanding. Your friend has to keep in mind that the purpose of her attending that church was to hear the Word of God and worship of the Lord. It is really not about the personality of the preacher. Positive benefits often result because of change.
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I have never known of personally, or heard of a pastor/church changing it's stance on an issue. Just get to the 'move on' part and be done with it.
There are reasons why a pastor can't change his teaching, and some of them are good reasons. But the bottom line is, he's not there to be changed. He's there to change you.
There are reasons why a pastor can't change his teaching, and some of them are good reasons. But the bottom line is, he's not there to be changed. He's there to change you.
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When I was in this situation, I approached the pastor with a ten-page document showing all the relevant Scripture and explaining why he was in error. His response was to tell anecdotes supporting his view. While I didn't leave right away, I think it would have been best to do so. Through subsequent conversations, I eventually lost all respect for the man.
I would agree that it is worthwhile to approach the pastor privately, as Scripture teaches. If you don't offer correction, you have no legitimate reason to complain. If the correction is not accepted, you can tolerate it, or leave. Don't dither, and don't make a scene... just go quietly. If your friends ask why, tell them clearly and without slandering the pastor.
I would agree that it is worthwhile to approach the pastor privately, as Scripture teaches. If you don't offer correction, you have no legitimate reason to complain. If the correction is not accepted, you can tolerate it, or leave. Don't dither, and don't make a scene... just go quietly. If your friends ask why, tell them clearly and without slandering the pastor.
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Ouch! I think I would have held the door open for you to leave, lol. Kidding, of course.
If I was a pastor or leader in an open assembly the points in your paper would be made into discussion points. The important thing being we're all in this together and that the goal is to make us into fruit bearing trees, not into towers of doctrinal accuracy. We're all learning, we're just at different stages of knowledge and growth and insight, including the pastor. He just (hopefully) has more knowledge and insight to contribute, and the gift to present it--that's why he's the pastor. But he still has to be willing to learn and admit where's he's been wrong.
In a closed, traditional church there is no opportunity for this. It's the pastor/church's way or the highway. He's not allowed to be wrong. The sooner you leave the better. In fact, they want it that way (and I don't blame them). As I say, there are good reasons for that as well as bad. Bottom line......hit the door as quickly as possible so it doesn't escalate into outbursts of anger and a factious division between you and that congregation, both of which are listed as deeds of the flesh in the Bible. It's okay to dissent, but not utilizing the deeds of the flesh.
People of faith can disagree and still satisfy the goal of growing everybody up into a living, experiential relationship with Christ of living according to the fruit of the Spirit. That is what counts. As long as differences don't fundamentally sabotage that primary goal--and as long as that is the primary goal of the group--then our doctrinal differences don't really need to be the 'make or break' thing we Christians tend to make them out to be.
I have had fellowship with all kinds of people with their varying doctrinal beliefs, but in the groups that met together to learn how to live for God in our daily lives and enjoy his presence, instead of meeting to be doctrinally accurate, those varying doctrines did not divide us.
If I was a pastor or leader in an open assembly the points in your paper would be made into discussion points. The important thing being we're all in this together and that the goal is to make us into fruit bearing trees, not into towers of doctrinal accuracy. We're all learning, we're just at different stages of knowledge and growth and insight, including the pastor. He just (hopefully) has more knowledge and insight to contribute, and the gift to present it--that's why he's the pastor. But he still has to be willing to learn and admit where's he's been wrong.
In a closed, traditional church there is no opportunity for this. It's the pastor/church's way or the highway. He's not allowed to be wrong. The sooner you leave the better. In fact, they want it that way (and I don't blame them). As I say, there are good reasons for that as well as bad. Bottom line......hit the door as quickly as possible so it doesn't escalate into outbursts of anger and a factious division between you and that congregation, both of which are listed as deeds of the flesh in the Bible. It's okay to dissent, but not utilizing the deeds of the flesh.
People of faith can disagree and still satisfy the goal of growing everybody up into a living, experiential relationship with Christ of living according to the fruit of the Spirit. That is what counts. As long as differences don't fundamentally sabotage that primary goal--and as long as that is the primary goal of the group--then our doctrinal differences don't really need to be the 'make or break' thing we Christians tend to make them out to be.
I have had fellowship with all kinds of people with their varying doctrinal beliefs, but in the groups that met together to learn how to live for God in our daily lives and enjoy his presence, instead of meeting to be doctrinally accurate, those varying doctrines did not divide us.
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Amen! A pastor that in the wrong isn't going to stand to be corrected by the laity she or he pastors to. And also, the individual arriving at the judgment the teachings are wrong could actually be the one in error. That would be embarrassing. But as we see just in these forums people are wrong about doctrine.
If arriving at a pastors office to explain how she/he is wrong when that would be the case, as example, that would be bad.
Best to just leave if it feels wrong to be in the congregation.
If arriving at a pastors office to explain how she/he is wrong when that would be the case, as example, that would be bad.
Best to just leave if it feels wrong to be in the congregation.
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My answer is pretty simple. If you believe church you are going to is teaching false doctrine, wait for the service to end, leave and never go back. You don't gossip about the pastor, you don't confront him, you don't try to take other people with you. You just leave and find a church you believe is teaching the truth. The pastor answers to God not you. Don't put yourself in a position of judging, gossiping, or maligning the pastor. You only bring divine discipline down on yourself.
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One thing is for a person from the congregation to disagree with the pastor's preaching, and their view of the subject.
Another thing is when you realize that the whole Christian movement is actually founded on this very thing; disagreement.
Keep in mind that the reason why varying views of the word and its message are present is because we are not all the same, and we can all interpret text in our own way.
This leads folks to congregate with "like minded" individuals and to teach based on emphasizing their views.
I think there's a name for this.... Denominations.
One thing I CANNOT understand is this:
Christianity is the "Truth" right?
When a person, ignorant to the christian faith begins their conversion journey, they will be under the assumption that their new found faith and spiritual path is undeniably true. Most of these Christian novices don't realize that there is more than 1 view when it comes to matters of the faith, including salvation and what it means to "live right".
Astonishingly, many of these "babes in Christ" will not do any in depth studies of what they are being taught and frankly, I might add; there is not way to actually learn any objectivity solely based on Church and pastoral teachings since the evident disagreements from church to church, and denomination to denomination.
The only thing that even gets remotely close to objectivity is to read the text plainly, and take it at face value. Unfortunately, the bible itself hosts many contradictions. (hence why even the people that claim to let the word speak for itself are wrong)
Some apologists have devoted their professional and scholarly efforts to reconcile the "apparent" contradictions. Unfortunately for them, there are still quite a bit of issues that remain unexplained.
So what happens when the "babes in Christ" mature and start asking questions?
1. They stay at the church, deeming all other churches heretical, or incorrect.
2. They say details don't matter and blindly hold on to their "faith".
3. Stop attending church and serve as their own pastor.
4. They start asking the right questions and realize no one actually knows anything on the basis that the very founding mechanism by which the information that validates their faith is irreconcilably flawed.
If you are curious about these heretical claims I am making, please; do not hesitate to inquire by asking for examples and evidence.
Another thing is when you realize that the whole Christian movement is actually founded on this very thing; disagreement.
Keep in mind that the reason why varying views of the word and its message are present is because we are not all the same, and we can all interpret text in our own way.
This leads folks to congregate with "like minded" individuals and to teach based on emphasizing their views.
I think there's a name for this.... Denominations.
One thing I CANNOT understand is this:
Christianity is the "Truth" right?
When a person, ignorant to the christian faith begins their conversion journey, they will be under the assumption that their new found faith and spiritual path is undeniably true. Most of these Christian novices don't realize that there is more than 1 view when it comes to matters of the faith, including salvation and what it means to "live right".
Astonishingly, many of these "babes in Christ" will not do any in depth studies of what they are being taught and frankly, I might add; there is not way to actually learn any objectivity solely based on Church and pastoral teachings since the evident disagreements from church to church, and denomination to denomination.
The only thing that even gets remotely close to objectivity is to read the text plainly, and take it at face value. Unfortunately, the bible itself hosts many contradictions. (hence why even the people that claim to let the word speak for itself are wrong)
Some apologists have devoted their professional and scholarly efforts to reconcile the "apparent" contradictions. Unfortunately for them, there are still quite a bit of issues that remain unexplained.
So what happens when the "babes in Christ" mature and start asking questions?
1. They stay at the church, deeming all other churches heretical, or incorrect.
2. They say details don't matter and blindly hold on to their "faith".
3. Stop attending church and serve as their own pastor.
4. They start asking the right questions and realize no one actually knows anything on the basis that the very founding mechanism by which the information that validates their faith is irreconcilably flawed.
If you are curious about these heretical claims I am making, please; do not hesitate to inquire by asking for examples and evidence.
Schedule a meeting with him and discuss the scriptures in question. If he won't meet with you then he doesn't care about your soul, and if he doesn't care about your soul he cares about money and power. Try to take it to the elders. If they don't listen take it before the church, if they don't listen, pronounce the church unbiblical, and go find a church that is biblical.
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