Child birth became painful

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Protek

Junior Member
#1
Aug 26, 2014
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#1
Just curious if anyone believes Adam and Eve had any children before being cast out.

The bible says that child birth became painful.

If you think they may have had children before being cast out........ Where would they be now and what role would they have.

Or is this entire entry in the bible symbolic of the casting out of all of man kind?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
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#2
No, I don't believe Adam and Eve had any children before being put out of the garden, so there is no speculation about the children's location or role now (they would have died long since, in the Flood if not before). And no, I don't believe this entry is symbolic; I believe it is literal history.

Not sure I've seen your name before... welcome to CC. :)
 
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Protek

Junior Member
#3
Aug 26, 2014
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#3
Thank you for the welcoming.

While I am basing this on only one verse which could be far from the original inscription (when ignoring the living word), I feel that if child birth had happened before Adam and Eve were cast out of heaven they would have survived in a world separate from our own. I know that speculation isn't all that healthy, but when a scripture speaks to you and sticks with you, if even in a small way, it is worth exploring. In the end I guess it doesn't matter what happen's in the heavenly world while our world is happening, but I like to think of heavenly bodies tied directly to us here in time. I like to think of Angel's devoted to our smallest part's and kingdoms tailored to our quietest bits. I guess I think it's fun to imagine a race of human's that didn't fall who are hell bound for lack of a better term, to tend to their fallen brothers and sisters with the only wish to see all of us reunited in the kingdom of heaven. Granted this is all fantasy and much of my experience with Jesus has been a personal one, but I enjoy my vision.

edit: I don't like quoting the bible, I'm not good at it and I am left with the spirit of it all rather than raw quotes. I am more than certain you will have something saying that all of the garden of Eden fell to earth or something similar.
 
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glf1

Active member
#4
Jun 10, 2018
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#4
It doesn't say exactly who in scripture that the sons of God are, but if they did have children before the fall, then those children kept the Spirit of the Lord in their spirits even after Adam and Eve suffered spiritual death in the day that they ate of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, so that in dying they did surely die. The sons of God here cannot be angels, because Heb 1 lets us know that at no time has the Lord called an angel a son, like he does Adam in the genealogies. The Lord lets us know that angels are all ministering spirits to the heirs of salvation, unlike the sons of Adam, who are in fact, the true heirs of salvation. They would have been kept from the tree of life just like Adam and Eve. That un-fallen nature that they received from Adam and Eve before their fall, could be what makes their offspring giants. btw... Crossbreeds are born sterile, why should the sons of God in Gen 6 be any different, if they are not also descended from Adam and Eve.
 
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Protek

Junior Member
#5
Aug 26, 2014
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#5
So I'm assuming I have struck a chord into the realm of "no one really knows". If you are talking about giants and crossbreeds, both of which I really know nothing about, I would guess that this isn't exactly scholarly supported. I have heard of giants being present early on though I never knew what they were. But I have no clue what a crossbreed would be.

Since we are in unscripted territory, I'm going to say that the lord and the father will not rest until all of creation has been saved from evil and torment. I have no way to back this up and if you read this expect more of this mindset from me in the future. (hence why I am currently banned from the chat room)
 
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Protek

Junior Member
#6
Aug 26, 2014
46
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#6
I guess the main reason I have kept this thought alive is my desire to wait out this world and find a wife in the next who doesn't know the general suffering of this world. Any person I meet in this world is simply a human, some are influenced heavily by spirits but they are all human. No Giants, no halfbreeds, just humans.

With the bleek nature of man kind I find it difficult to justify doing anything more than the bare minimum to get by in this world. Yes I will tend to those in need and do my best to improve the lives of others, however when it comes to myself......... I just want to get by and not live life to the fullest. How could I? All I know from those around me is getting by, everyone I know who is married is suffering through a relationship that at times could do them in. Myself, I'm doing good enough to get out of bed and do my daily routine, so why would I involve another person in this? Many years ago when I first met Jesus the primary prayer I had was for a wife. Now that I am mostly better I don't want anyone here. I would rather that my wife never set foot on this world and I can enjoy the next life. In the mean time I will ease the suffering of the lord Jesus as he is with all of man kind in their deepest times and more. I will tend to the lord in his time of this fallen place and pray that he keeps my other half out of this cesspit. I know the bible says he will bring a life to the full but I have given up on that, it has been more than a minute and I'm done. I'm almost half way through and throwing in the towel only to wait it out. So if my wife was born in heaven I will meet her there.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#7
#7
For the sake of the argument, let's assume that Adam and Eve gave birth to children before the fall. When they sin, the fast-contaminating effects of sin will reach those "before the fall" children, in the sense that everyone is tainted by sin. It's possible that childbirth happened before the fall, but the children born before the fall is somehow no different than the children after the fall.
 
OneFaith

OneFaith

Senior Member
#8
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
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#8
Protek said:
Just curious if anyone believes Adam and Eve had any children before being cast out.

The bible says that child birth became painful.

If you think they may have had children before being cast out........ Where would they be now and what role would they have.

Or is this entire entry in the bible symbolic of the casting out of all of man kind?
Click to expand...
"I will sharply increase your pain in child birth."
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#9
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#9
I do not think that it has become painful and that it was painless before.

I think that if they would not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they would be transformed to spiritual beings. Because they did eat, God simply told them what it will be like to live in physical "animal" bodies outside of the garden - a struggle to get food, pain and death.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#10
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#10
In the 60's a Dr Read of England posted in the Readers Digest article explaining painless childbirth. It is based on the idea that the birth muscles are automatic, but stomach muscles lay on top of them. Our nerves tell these stomach muscles to help with the birth although they only pull on the automatic birth muscles causing pain.

If the birth mother can concentrate on these stomach muscles enough to control them, relax them and trust the birth muscles to do the job without help, there is no pain. I know this works because I had a child with absolutely no pain at all.

This method has fallen out of favor because few women have the ability to focus enough, nor the ability to truly completely trust in God's perfect construction of the body.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#11
Feb 10, 2017
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#11
I think women had wider hips before the "fall" making birthing painless..:cool:
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#14
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#14
Blik said:
In the 60's a Dr Read of England posted in the Readers Digest article explaining painless childbirth. It is based on the idea that the birth muscles are automatic, but stomach muscles lay on top of them. Our nerves tell these stomach muscles to help with the birth although they only pull on the automatic birth muscles causing pain.

If the birth mother can concentrate on these stomach muscles enough to control them, relax them and trust the birth muscles to do the job without help, there is no pain. I know this works because I had a child with absolutely no pain at all.

This method has fallen out of favor because few women have the ability to focus enough, nor the ability to truly completely trust in God's perfect construction of the body.
Click to expand...
Scripture tells us birth is painful, yet I was able to have birth without pain so it worried me for a long time that I was finding scripture wrong.

But with enough faith in how God created our bodies to work well if they are used according to His ways, it is true. If you follow the instincts of the flesh during birth, the flesh tells you your body needs you to help it with this tremendous task.

Dr. Read discovered the painless way to have birth when he cared for a very poor, very simple woman who told him (while she was in labor) that God made her body so well that God would take care of all the work, she simply lay quietly and let God work.

I discovered that it took tremendous effort to hold the "help" muscles loose, overriding the urge to help took every bit of effort I had in me.

Faith is like that. Our flesh keeps telling us to do everything our way, not let God take the lead.
 
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OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
#15
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
#15
Protek said:
Just curious if anyone believes Adam and Eve had any children before being cast out.

The bible says that child birth became painful.

If you think they may have had children before being cast out........ Where would they be now and what role would they have.

Or is this entire entry in the bible symbolic of the casting out of all of man kind?
Click to expand...
Had they given birth to a family in the garden would we not know this in the scriptures that should tell of it?

Birth is painful because the cartilage of the pubic synthesis in the woman's pelvis separates, breaks apart, so that the head of her baby may pass through into the world.
All was foreseen by God and all was pre-planned. Otherwise why would God plant the tree of conscious awareness of obedience and disobedience, good and evil, in the garden wherein he then as a sacred holy omni-present spirit watched as the adversary he let to live slithered in and into the branches?
God sent himself to sacrifice himself on a tree, in Jewish law such a one was to remain cursed for all time, in order to reconcile our soul to his own? When he didn't forgive the first mistake newborn unconscious innocents without awareness of obedience and disobedience, that construct of good vs. evil, did find themselves persuaded by a higher mind, Lucifer.

It is all a much larger picture than what is given us on the page. God is a spirit. And we must worship him in the spirit of knowing this.
We are first living souls cast into human flesh.
By God's will.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#16
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#16
You seem to be very knowledgeable about birth and why it is painful. Could you then, with all this know how, explain how it was that I gave birth with no pain when I achieved absolute quiet inside?
 
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OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
#17
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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#17
Blik said:
You seem to be very knowledgeable about birth and why it is painful. Could you then, with all this know how, explain how it was that I gave birth with no pain when I achieved absolute quiet inside?
Click to expand...
You seem to imagine I was describing your giving birth.
I was not.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#18
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#18
OstrichSmiling said:
You seem to imagine I was describing your giving birth.
I was not.
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Not at all. I shared a personal experience hoping for either a discussion of how God works for everyone (I am not unique) or exploring the spiritual meaning of what happened.

I was also thinking of the possibility of inspiring interest in managing child birth in a way that could save pain and perhaps save lives.
 
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Protek

Junior Member
#19
Aug 26, 2014
46
23
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#19
Ostrich, some good food for thought. A comment on the one who sacrificed himself and then being cursed for all time. That's why he is Jesus, the lord and savior. He is more than capable to be next to one suffering immense pain and turmoil while also being able to transcend into the light. He is both in long-suffering with the hurting and kept in endless peace. I don't know how to describe such a thing but no pain is greater than he can bear. Of all the pains known to man, the greatest to the lord is seeing his children in a broken world suffering from sin. Still he does not leave us. Once I realized that the pure and ever present lord was with me all of my day's I prayed over and over for him to deliver to me someone that was suffering as I once was so that I could help ease the burden of that soul and the little Jesus that was next to them. He is silent and does not require you to know his love, but when you do, it is abundant and unending.

Matthew 25:

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, "I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me

No where in that passage does it say that he was visited among the believers, rather he was among the hurting and those in need even when they did not know he was there. So I say, tend to any who may need tending for the heart and soul of the lord is with them. The lord is true and great and he encompasses all of man kind. Seek the lord in his turmoil and ease the heart of your brother or sister and know they are among the king.
 
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