We will have to disagree on that, I do try to listen to the Bible and what God is saying to me. Also my beliefs and current position are based on what I have read in the Bible. DevotiontoBible think what you will of me, what matters to me is what God thinks of me, not what you think God thinks of me, I am accepted, forgiven, adopted into God's family, clothed in Christ's rightousness. I do not want to debate further with you what I believe. It is a pity initially I thought we could have an open conversation but clearly this is not the case. I will now annoy botht Arminians and Calvinists by saying we are talking about secondary issues, if we have believed then we are Saved.
Calvinism vs. Arminianism?
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so we have all you Calvinists and then we have 'the others'?
LOL!
Calvin was a man and maybe take a look into his murderous tendencies.
but of course he could always say that it was predetermined he would murder people so he was just obedient
none of it makes any sense!!!
LOL!
Calvin was a man and maybe take a look into his murderous tendencies.
but of course he could always say that it was predetermined he would murder people so he was just obedient
none of it makes any sense!!!
According to the Bible we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Period. The Apostles Creed defines the beliefs a Christian must believe. All else is agree to disagree. The reason the early elders created the Roman Creed and updated it to the Apostles Creed in 390 was to define the required beliefs a Christian must have with any deviation from it being heresy. That is one reason it was created. There were disagreements among the elders and it defined the area where disagreements were heresy and outside it was the agree to disagree. All are required to adhere to it or they are guilty of heresy. The Calvinist, Armenianists and other views that are Biblical fall into this category. We just agree to disagree and celebrate the core beliefs we adhere to.
All of Calvinism vs Armenianism views fall into the area of agree to disagree!!!
All of Calvinism vs Armenianism views fall into the area of agree to disagree!!!
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John Calvin followed Augustine’s biblical justification for burning heretics. Augustine excused extreme measures through his interpretation of Jesus’ Great Banquet parable in Luke 14:16-24. When the master could not fill up his banquet in the parable, he commanded his servants in Luke 14:23 “to compel people to come so that my house will be filled.” Augustine and Calvin believed burning heretics would “compel” more people to enter their house of God. Interpreting “compulsion” as a license to kill without consideration for Jesus’ other teaching to “love your enemies” is a major hermeneutical error. Any part of Jesus’ teaching should be interpreted in light of the whole.
Calvin justified capital punishment of heretics with Leviticus 24:16. “The one who blasphemes the name of the Lord should be put to death; all the congregation must stone him. Any foreigner or native who blasphemes the Name should be put to death.”
Jesus’ teaching to “love your enemies” didn’t stop Calvin from killing them. Paul’s instructions for dealing with people who theologically disagree with you were ignored: “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth” (2 Timothy 2:24-25). Calvin authorized beheadings, death by fire, and torture rather than exercise patience and kindness with competing theologians. His enforcement of biblical doctrines looked more like ISIS than Jesus.
source
Calvin justified capital punishment of heretics with Leviticus 24:16. “The one who blasphemes the name of the Lord should be put to death; all the congregation must stone him. Any foreigner or native who blasphemes the Name should be put to death.”
Jesus’ teaching to “love your enemies” didn’t stop Calvin from killing them. Paul’s instructions for dealing with people who theologically disagree with you were ignored: “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth” (2 Timothy 2:24-25). Calvin authorized beheadings, death by fire, and torture rather than exercise patience and kindness with competing theologians. His enforcement of biblical doctrines looked more like ISIS than Jesus.
source
If you read the 5 points of each they are diametrically opposed to each other.
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to this web site,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to this web site,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Where did he kill people? He didn't have the power to murder people and get away with that. Only the government had that power. If he took it in his own hands he would have been sentenced to death for that crime. Murderers had a short life span no matter their reasons. So start explaining your reasoning that he killed (murdered) people.
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I guess this might be extreme with regards to Calvinism? or is it?
why are Calvinists so eager to kill most people and give themselves a 'well done' pat on the shoulder?
would it be because Calvin himself was predisposed to murdering or having murdered those who did not see in the Bible what he said he saw?
why are Calvinists so eager to kill most people and give themselves a 'well done' pat on the shoulder?
would it be because Calvin himself was predisposed to murdering or having murdered those who did not see in the Bible what he said he saw?
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glad you asked...................
John Calvin’s Reign of Terror
John Calvin, the spiritual father of the Presbyterian and Reformed churches, dominated the town of Geneva, Switzerland. From 1541 to 1546 the civil government enforced severe penalties against those who disagreed with his reforms. Although a Protestant, He showed by his actions that he had no disagreement with the basic principles behind the Spanish Inquisition — that the church was charged by God to enforce uniform belief and proper Christian behavior among the entire populace. As one biographer put it, “It was not in his nature to be evasive with heretics…” [From the Foreword to “Calvin’s Institutes, A New Compend,” page 10, Hugh T. Kerr, editor (1989)]. In a five-year period, fifty-eight people were executed and seventy-six were banished because of Calvin’s straightforward nature.
The most famous execution occurred in 1553 — Michael Servetus, a Unitarian. In that year he was passing through Geneva, fleeing the death sentence of the Catholic Church for his heretical views. Yet because of his lively interest in religious matters, he went to listen to Calvin, now one of the most famous leaders of the Reformation. Unfortunately for Servetus, he had sent some of his papers to Calvin seven years earlier, questioning many established doctrines, including that of the Trinity (the three Persons of God). Calvin had responded roughly to Servetus, refusing even to return the papers. Calvin had even then condemned him, showing his full agreement with the judgment of the Catholic Church. He had written to a friend that if Servetus ever came to Geneva, “I will never let him depart alive, if I have any authority.” [William R. Estep, “Renaissance and Reformation”; pages 221-248 deal with Calvin’s contribution to the Protestant Reformation.]
On that fateful day in 1553, Calvin recognized and denounced Servetus, who was promptly arrested and condemned as a heretic (one who disagrees with accepted beliefs). The laws of Geneva regarding heretics had changed several years earlier, and exile was the strictest penalty that remained. Nevertheless, Calvin favored cutting Servetus’ head off. The town went even further than this and burned the man alive… History records that he shrieked with agony when the flames reached his face, and burned for another half hour before dying [“The Renaissance,” by Will Durant, pages 482-484]. Such facts trouble sincere people. Do they trouble you? And a very troubling question is, why do the people with “good doctrine” murder the people with “bad doctrine”, and not the other way around?
source
John Calvin’s Reign of Terror
John Calvin, the spiritual father of the Presbyterian and Reformed churches, dominated the town of Geneva, Switzerland. From 1541 to 1546 the civil government enforced severe penalties against those who disagreed with his reforms. Although a Protestant, He showed by his actions that he had no disagreement with the basic principles behind the Spanish Inquisition — that the church was charged by God to enforce uniform belief and proper Christian behavior among the entire populace. As one biographer put it, “It was not in his nature to be evasive with heretics…” [From the Foreword to “Calvin’s Institutes, A New Compend,” page 10, Hugh T. Kerr, editor (1989)]. In a five-year period, fifty-eight people were executed and seventy-six were banished because of Calvin’s straightforward nature.
The most famous execution occurred in 1553 — Michael Servetus, a Unitarian. In that year he was passing through Geneva, fleeing the death sentence of the Catholic Church for his heretical views. Yet because of his lively interest in religious matters, he went to listen to Calvin, now one of the most famous leaders of the Reformation. Unfortunately for Servetus, he had sent some of his papers to Calvin seven years earlier, questioning many established doctrines, including that of the Trinity (the three Persons of God). Calvin had responded roughly to Servetus, refusing even to return the papers. Calvin had even then condemned him, showing his full agreement with the judgment of the Catholic Church. He had written to a friend that if Servetus ever came to Geneva, “I will never let him depart alive, if I have any authority.” [William R. Estep, “Renaissance and Reformation”; pages 221-248 deal with Calvin’s contribution to the Protestant Reformation.]
On that fateful day in 1553, Calvin recognized and denounced Servetus, who was promptly arrested and condemned as a heretic (one who disagrees with accepted beliefs). The laws of Geneva regarding heretics had changed several years earlier, and exile was the strictest penalty that remained. Nevertheless, Calvin favored cutting Servetus’ head off. The town went even further than this and burned the man alive… History records that he shrieked with agony when the flames reached his face, and burned for another half hour before dying [“The Renaissance,” by Will Durant, pages 482-484]. Such facts trouble sincere people. Do they trouble you? And a very troubling question is, why do the people with “good doctrine” murder the people with “bad doctrine”, and not the other way around?
source
Devotional
Ephesians 2 8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.
I have been saved by grace when I believed in Jesus, but this is the gift of God and that includes the ability to believe.
Ephesians 2 8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.
I have been saved by grace when I believed in Jesus, but this is the gift of God and that includes the ability to believe.
