Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,437
113
Dunno about you guys, but I enjoyed my sinless perfection with a cuppa iced coffee this morning.. (y)

LOL


(and before anyone gets on me, I'm only kidding about my sinless perfection)

;):p:cool::)(y)
You had coffee?

That had caffeine in it.

Did you have one yesterday?
Will you have one tomorrow?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,437
113
You mean the faith actually described by your little band of Christians don't you? The bible describes faith in many ways. It also describes what dead faith is. And the bible also elevates charity above faith.

Are you willing to acknowledge Jesus by doing acts of charity? That seems like a higher reality than just acknowledging that Jesus exists and is the Savior. Let's actually acknowledge him AND follow him and do what he says, how bout that.

Highly unlikely though.

Under this condition, you would have the opportunity to forgive this man in the after life. If a man takes you and your families life by cold blooded murder and you die instantly, you will have a chance to forgive that man to the Fathers face in the after life.

Many possible exceptions. If you are a mobster and you are in the business to kill, then all is off. If you are a true Christian and you have forgiven men their sins against you all your life, then you will be given the chance to forgive in the after life. And everything in between will be judged by God, who is a perfect judge.

So his saying will hold. If you forgive all, God will forgive all. If you do not forgive all, God will not forgive all. Which means you will not have Eternal life.
My little band of Christians?
What about yours?
You seen retisant to tell us what church you go to or denomination?

Why?


Quote any posts that I have said works will not follow faith.
So now you accuse me off of not being willing to acknowledge Jesus by doing acts of charity.

Are you willing to acknowledge Jesus by doing acts of charity? That seems like a higher reality than just acknowledging that Jesus exists and is the Savior. Let's actually acknowledge him AND follow him and do what he says, how bout that.

Highly unlikely though
Oh boy oh boy oh boy.

I would have the chance to forgive my abuse in the afterlife.
Then you say "I wy have the chance"

If that's the case then I would not be separated from Jesus as you said in previous posts if I did not do it before I died.

Sorry but there is no opportunity once we have died.

If you think so then please post build verses to back up your point.
Where in the Bible does it say this?

You are contradicting yourself.

Die with unforgivness, then seperated from Jesus, then have a chance to forgive, but then you say you have a chance to forgive after you have have died"

Here is the irony.

I'm the one who kills you and your family.
You die before you forgive me.
You have the chance to forgive me.
I die one minute after I killed you.
Do I have that same chance?

Afterall sin is sin, whether it be unforgivness or murder.

So as asked please post Bible verses to back up your post from the BIBLE
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
I do wonder how many most frequent posters on this thread on average :unsure:

hmm ...
let's calculate

a year = 365 days
10 years = 3650 days
which, eh, for a ball-park estimate
10 thread page a day on average

if we estimate that there are around 5-10 posts per each thread page
there will be around 50 to 100 post per day on average

and based on the statistics I gathered here
https://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/what-do-you-think-about-osas.177830/

5 voters and 20 replies
on average 4 replies per voters

50 / 4 = 12 or 13
100 / 4 = 25

I can conclude that, there are approximately 12 to 20 most frequent posters on this thread on average

and assuming that my sample size of 5 voters would leave two different doctrines a tie
on average 6 to 10 debate participants vs another 6 to 10 debate participants

which leaves me to conclude that, what just few people? wow!

can somehow check my guess-timation mathematics? on my research here?

and, is there any higher purpose than mere mathematics?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,437
113
Ben

Given your response to me concerning dieing with 1 unforgivness in my heart then I'm seperated from Jesus then so are you.

You, me will not have a chance to do that.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
@BillG

when we first step foot in cc.com

expectation: "I will minister as greatly as Billy Graham and all will be converted onto thee"

reality: the disappointment we all see right now
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
4:1 Paul begins a series of instructions specifically for Timothy. the Spirit expressly says: Paul may be referring to various prophecies inspired by the Holy Spirit concerning defection from God’s truth (see Dan. 7:25; 8:23; Matt. 24:4–12), or he might be speaking of a revelation the Spirit had given to him. Depart here means literally “to stand away from.” There will be various seasons in which some people will depart from their faith (1:19, 20). The reference here is not to a loss of salvation but to a failure to walk obediently (see John 19:25–27; 1 Cor. 3:1–3; 11:29, 30). The impact of satanic attack and influence is described in vv. 1–3. Doctrines of demons refers to following occult practices. NKJV Bible study notes.

It's amazing how satan can bring bondage to a believer (genuine beliver) that if you are not 100% obedient or compliant then God is gonna send you to hell.

Gods love for us casts out fear, satans hate for God casts out love.

Those are your words, not mine.


God has given us a way to be forgiven of our sins, if we commit a sin.


It's not hard, however it's takes humbling one's self, and coming before God or another believer, and confessing our sin, so that we may be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


This is what I had to do, when I was backslidden and living in a cycle of sin and shame, because I didn't understand that we can walk according to the Spirit, in victory over the sinful desires of the flesh.


again


Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. James 5:16



However, God has intended for us to walk according to the Spirit, rather than being led around by the lustful desires of the flesh.



I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


This is the life God intends for His children to live,


He gives us a new nature, that is empowered by the Spirit, so that we can live our lives according to the Spirit, rather than according to the flesh.


Make no mistake, Paul makes it perfectly clear, the consequences of practicing the works of the flesh.


  • I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.



19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



Please listen!

Please take heed to what Paul is warning us.

Please!



Do you understand what will not inherit the kingdom of God means?


Can we please discuss these things?




JPT
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
this is biblical scripture defending OSAS

1 John 5:13 New International Version (NIV)
Concluding Affirmations

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.


in light of this bible verse, if OSAS is false, then how do we make sense of this bible verse?
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
Nothing I've stated is reflected in your accusations.

Here's something novel for you to do: Apologize to the sister for your insults; end asserting things no one has said as you've done above.

Please explain how pointing out that she was insulting me, is somehow insulting her?


Yes, What I stated is exactly what you are teaching God's people when you say, and I quote your words:


"Departing from the faith does not mean, nor is it interpreted as loss of salvation as you falsely assert".


If a person who saved through faith, departs from the faith by which he was saved, then what else could it possibly mean?


  • an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
  • For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,



12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14



How can you possibly think a person can depart from the faith in Christ Jesus, and still be saved through?



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
If I were to insult JPT, I'd probably be thrown off this site. I would not mince words. Thank you for your support.

You deliberately left a very important word from verse 28.

Why?


Verse 28 begins with the word “and”.

Verse 28 is the result of obeying verse 27.


27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Eternal comes at the end of a life of hearing His Voice, which means hearing and doing what is heard, and following Him.


Those who “hear”, follow Him and do not become lost.


Those who become lost, have returned to being sinners.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


Lost = Seperated from God. Dead to God.




JPT
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
You mean the faith actually described by your "little band of Christians" don't you?
"Little Band of Christians; what an insult to Jesus and His disciples. And why not tell every one here "what Church denomination you are affiliated with." Is there something you are afraid that we may not approve of your theological doctrines? Why so secretive got something to hide? It is only right that you should be honest about this since we are all listening to what you are teaching on an International Christian Forum.

benher, What Chruch denomination are you affiliated with please
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
this is biblical scripture defending OSAS

1 John 5:13 New International Version (NIV)
Concluding Affirmations

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.


in light of this bible verse, if OSAS is false, then how do we make sense of this bible verse?

You left out half of the verse, brother?


Why?


11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13



Do you believe a person who departs from the faith, still has Christ?


Do you believe that if a person departs from Christ, in unbelief, he still "has Christ"?



  • an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
  • For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,



12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14




He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12




JPT
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
You left out half of the verse, brother?


Why?


11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13

JPT
my apologies Mr. JPT but I looked a biblegateway.com and they never showed that part you have indicated in bold

Do you believe a person who departs from the faith, still has Christ?


Do you believe that if a person departs from Christ, in unbelief, he still "has Christ"?



  • an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
  • For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,



12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14




He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12




JPT
for the remainder of the questions, I want to believe that God is love so much that even Lucifer can be saved, even though the Bible says that Satan will be cast out forever
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
JPT --------------------------------------------------->Shoots and misses the barn from about 3 feet away because....








THE TARGET is way down here and the truth alludes him.......His Jesus cannot save someone....too weak and cannot keep his promises, no power etc...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,457
13,396
113
58
If a person who saved through faith, departs from the faith by which he was saved, then what else could it possibly mean? How can you possibly think a person can depart from the faith in Christ Jesus, and still be saved through?
1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

I presume that you believe "depart from the faith" means that born again believers depart from saving faith in Christ and lose their salvation. The words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines for cults or false religions. That does not prove they were previously born again. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church began to come into existence in the early 4th century. The Roman Catholic church forbids it's clergy to marry. This same church has other demonic doctrines such as transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc..

an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will be saved (future indicative) if you (future indicative) persevere." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, really saved, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to Christ."

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah. And of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born again Hebrews who have partaken in Messiah, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Those faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.

Hebrews 3:8-10 says, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' *Not descriptive of believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it. Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Considered the truth for a time, then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer.

Just like in Hebrews 4:1-2, For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which they heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
MAN....lose your fanciful scenarios and "What if" fantasy land rigmarole......what if orange pigs could fly to the moon....see how ridiculous "what if" is.....hey I got one....

What if you actually acknowledged Jesus by the faith<---the faith actually described in the bible.....NOW that would be something....highly unlikely though
Hi decon, don't you dislike behurs fictitious stories, you cannot verify the truth of the story because it is hearsay with no eyewitness and the story is completely fiction. Stop the "what if", stupid stories benhur.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
Isn't it amazing? There aren't even this many pages tallied in this thread on this topic to be found in the Bible Words of God that simply deliver the truth of eternal salvation.

Salvation comes by God's grace as a free irrevocable gift to those who's only "work" is to believe. And in that moment because God called them to the Word of Truth, that new believer is eternally saved and indwelt with God's holy spirit. Then if they are emmersed in the waters that cleanse away ceremoniously the sins and bury the old self that was dead in its sins, like Jesus from the tomb, they too rise renewed in a glorified, glory filled, body . They are now the temple of God because God's holy spirit lives within and guides them to all truth.
True, not everyone who calls His name are saved. But God does know whom he called because he tells us he knew us before the creation of the world.

So it is true that someone who claims they're saved but really are not are not saved. But those who are in Christ's body and God's holy spirit is within them, are eternally His own.
Otherwise, man, woman, would be stronger than God's will for them.
How hard is it to know this? We who are in Christ say we believe what he inspired to be written as his holy word , the Bible. And yet, we who claim we are in Christ argue against our own security in God's promise? Does that make any sense at all?


I borrowed this with permission from another community. I don't know if it has been shared here because I won't read through over 3000 pages that argue one simple truth Jesus died to seal for eternity.
I hope it helps reaffirm God's truth to his saints. And perhaps it can dramatically change the minds of those who are not so yet. God's will be done.
I didn't save the URL of the community from which it was copied. My apologies for that.


For a Christian to lose their salvation God would have to:

*Erase the Mark (John 13- And verse 35.)

*Withdraw the Holy Spirit within them

* Cancel the Deposit (Ephesians 1:13-14 & 2 Corinthians 1:21-22)

*Break His promise (Acts 2:38-39 & http://www.openbible.info/topics/assurance_of_salvation)


*Revoke the Guarantee (James 1:17 & 2 Corinthians 1:22)

*Keep the Inheritance (Ephesians 1:11-14)

*Forego the praise (Hebrews 13:15)