John Chapter 3 REFUTES Five Point Calvinism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
464
83
OK, I'll give it to you. Matthew was a gifted tax collector (even though it takes zero IQ to collect taxes).
Not true.

God gave Paul a special gift of preaching, that just took faith and no intelligence was required either.
Not true.

Luke was a herbalist, just like those you see at the markets. they didn't have modern medicine in those days. So again, little IQ required.
Not true.

And since we do know a lot more about medicine now, do you believe no doctors can be saved, because they're smart?

Go back and read what Grandpa wrote to support what I'm saying, I'm sure your jaw will drop when you do.
Many of the things you say make my jaw drop... :)
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
May I please ask you who planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Did God put it there by accident and did they eat of it by accident, or was it all a part of a plan

where to even begin........

yes..creation...all of it...is the ALL things

God did not create sin nor did He create the desire to sin nor does He tempt those who sin

that is Bible 101

I have read a good number of posts by Calvinists, but yours are absolutely the most 'out there'

not a compliment
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
The thing is did men like Leibniz...., did they hold to the wordily view as natural; "nothing created something" or the supernatural (no nature) view of one who has no beginning ?

Let there be and there was.... or nothing created something?

Can't find God in a microscope , as if he was made of the rudiments of this corrupted world .

That kind of vain order is reserved for the philosophers, and oral traditions of men who do not walk by the unseen (faith)

We are warned of them who attempt to make God's word as God's law (not a philosophical theory of men) to none effect.

The missing bone is still missing.

Colossians 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, "after" the tradition of men, "after" the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
You said what I would have liked to say, but I haven't memorized all the Bible verses yet. But that's what I was trying and failing to communicate, thank you for putting it so clearly
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Hi Danny, if it was all a "setup" by God, and our progenitors were made/forced to disobey God by God Himself, 1. how can He hold our first parents culpable for their disobedience in the Garden, and 2. how can He not be considered the true Author of sin/moral evil?

Thanks!

~Deut

that makes too much sense

LOL!
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
where to even begin........

yes..creation...all of it...is the ALL things

God did not create sin nor did He create the desire to sin nor does He tempt those who sin

that is Bible 101

I have read a good number of posts by Calvinists, but yours are absolutely the most 'out there'

not a compliment
I know it wasn't a compliment but I'm taking it as one anyway, cheers :cool:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I know it wasn't a compliment but I'm taking it as one anyway, cheers :cool:

well of course you would

in keeping with your beliefs I would say LOL!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
OK, I'll give it to you. Matthew was a gifted tax collector (even though it takes zero IQ to collect taxes).

God gave Paul a special gift of preaching, that just took faith and no intelligence was required either.

Luke was a herbalist, just like those you see at the markets. they didn't have modern medicine in those days. So again, little IQ required.

Go back and read what Grandpa wrote to support what I'm saying, I'm sure your jaw will drop when you do.
0 IQ means your brain is technically dead. IQ 60 and lower is a mental retardation.

Half of people has IQ between 90-110 and they can live normally in the society on various positions. You can have a university degree with an average IQ.

I am actually not sure what you are trying to say - that we must be stupid or mentally retarded or else we are atheists? Thats absurd.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
that makes too much sense

LOL!
No, I reject that because you must agree that God created everything including the ability and willingness to sin. Nobody knows why God does certain things, He's ways are way above ours.
We shouldn't manufacture answers to things that the Bible is not clear about.
We can know for a fact that God is sovereign over all things and that means everything and yes even that thing, Everything means everything, and just because something doesn't seem right in our sinful eyes doesn't mean that God got something wrong. It just means there's something wrong with us.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
The thing is did men like Leibniz...., did they hold to the wordily view as natural; "nothing created something" or the supernatural (no nature) view of one who has no beginning ?

Let there be and there was.... or nothing created something?

Can't find God in a microscope , as if he was made of the rudiments of this corrupted world .

That kind of vain order is reserved for the philosophers, and oral traditions of men who do not walk by the unseen (faith)

We are warned of them who attempt to make God's word as God's law (not a philosophical theory of men) to none effect.

The missing bone is still missing.

Colossians 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, "after" the tradition of men, "after" the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
I would really like to respond, but I have a problem with understanding what you are trying to ask...
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
0 IQ means your brain is technically dead. IQ 60 and lower is a mental retardation.

Half of people has IQ between 90-110 and they can live normally in the society on various positions. You can have a university degree with an average IQ.

I am actually not sure what you are trying to say - that we must be stupid or mentally retarded or else we are atheists? Thats absurd.
Go and read all the verses that Grandpa listed showing that, what you call smart is actually dumb in Gods sight. It's a false intelligence and the world sucks up to them as if thy're something really special.

I told you plainly Christians are dumb, stupid, retreaded, slow, foolish or what ever other worldly wise label you want to put on them. But they are actually infinitely wiser than the most worldly intelligent person.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Not true either. Matthew was not a fisherman, he was a toll colector.

Paul had the best school of religion of those days.

Luke was a doctor.

Also, having a manual profession has nothing to do with not being smart or intelligent. When you read letters of John or Peter, they were intelligent. John uses philosophical terms (logos pros ton theon) etc. They were not stupid.
Yes they were not stupid.... unless they denied Christ being dumbed down by the father of lies. Two kinds of wisdom.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.Mathr ew 16:22-24

Satan is the father of stupid .

Paul with his education and false zeal for knowing God prior to receiving the wisdom of God working in his heart, tortured both men and woman and killed the misperceived competition(Christians) as in out of sight out of mind... wisdom of the world (no faith)

Satan is a murderer from the beginning...... Did God say you will surely die? death came by the murderer, the god of this world.

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
And desired of him letters (of approval) to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricksActs 9:1-5

And again adding more information . Notice its the result of following the laws of men called a "law of the fathers" and not the law of our father in heaven that they made to no effect. by having their faith in respect to that seen.

LOL He is still paying off the student loan with nothing to show for it other than a rebuke.

Acts 22:1-7 (KJV) Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you. (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the "law of the fathers" (as oral traditons of men) , and was zealous (falsely) toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters( of approaval) unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
No, I reject that because you must agree that God created everything including the ability and willingness to sin. Nobody knows why God does certain things, He's ways are way above ours.
We shouldn't manufacture answers to things that the Bible is not clear about.
We can know for a fact that God is sovereign over all things and that means everything and yes even that thing, Everything means everything, and just because something doesn't seem right in our sinful eyes doesn't mean that God got something wrong. It just means there's something wrong with us.

what you are actually saying, is that God is responsible for the sin of every human being...past, present and future

He is not

you are saying things totally unrelated to scripture and mashing it all up

my eyes are no longer sinful. I have been redeemed and am now a saint as Paul says
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
Not true.


Not true.


Not true.

And since we do know a lot more about medicine now, do you believe no doctors can be saved, because they're smart?


Many of the things you say make my jaw drop... :)
A proper modern Doctor believes in secular science, that automatically excludes him from being a true believer. yes he can claim to be, but so did Judas
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Go and read all the verses that Grandpa listed showing that, what you call smart is actually dumb in Gods sight. It's a false intelligence and the world sucks up to them as if thy're something really special.

I told you plainly Christians are dumb, stupid, retreaded, slow, foolish or what ever other worldly wise label you want to put on them. But they are actually infinitely wiser than the most worldly intelligent person.

You can put whatever spin you want on it, but the fact remains you are dumb if you are a Christain
I think you are trolling.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
A proper modern Doctor believes in secular science, that automatically excludes him from being a true believer. yes he can claim to be, but so did Judas

I can't even

now a doctor cannot be saved because you say so

but it was ok for Luke because I guess he was not a proper modern doctor

boggles the mind it does :rolleyes:
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
what you are actually saying, is that God is responsible for the sin of every human being...past, present and future

He is not

you are saying things totally unrelated to scripture and mashing it all up

my eyes are no longer sinful. I have been redeemed and am now a saint as Paul says
I can't say I believe God created all things, then turn around and say Oh' except for XY&Z. He either created all things (including the ability to sin) or He didn't, we can't have it both ways
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Danny cannot be taken seriously, so y'all enjoy
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
I would really like to respond, but I have a problem with understanding what you are trying to ask...
Sorry, What kind of view did he have? Worldly as in no faith coming from the word of God as that which comes by hearing God alone ?

Can't find God by looking at the rudiments (atoms and molecues of this corrupted creation ) under a microscope. No one knows what kind of rudiments will be in the new incorruptible new heavens and earth . God is not limited by that which he creates. (paganism)

No corrupted flesh and blood in the new .

Corruption does not inherit the incorruptible.but a entirely new creation does

Ministries (Answers in Geneisis ) like that of Ken Ham and Gary Parker(and American Indian) refute those who are still looking for the missing bones theory of men .
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
I can't even

now a doctor cannot be saved because you say so

but it was ok for Luke because I guess he was not a proper modern doctor

boggles the mind it does :rolleyes:
Luke was your garden variety Herbalist, modern medicine replaced herbal medicine in 1915.

I didn't say that a medical Doctor couldn't be a Christian, I said the one who accepts science instead of the Bible is not real