Speaking in tongues

[garee]

You keep using the word 'saved' wrongly.
Even from language perspective, the word 'saved' can not be used the way you are trying to use it. No one is saved until they are saved.
-Saved from what? Eternal damnation? when is this eternal damnation- is it future or past?
-You can't say "i fought' when you are still fighting
-You can't say "i ran" when you are still running
-And you certainly have no right to say "i'm saved" when God is still carrying out His salvation work in you. This kind of pride is not needed.

2 Tim 3:14 But as for you, continue in the things you have learned andfirmly believed, since you know from whom you learned them. 15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Col 1:22 But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— 23 if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Salvation is God's work and it all happens in your heart. Even though we have assurance through the faith, it is not our part to declare saved or not saved but we patiently wait because faith also hopes for the promises.

Yes our new faith as a living continuing hope , having no hope, no faith before we believed is a continuous work of God that he works in us .It provides us with a living hope . The kind of hope that surpass human understanding as a mystery made know. No man has received the end of the goal our new incorruptible body, all die not receiving it .

If we would claim we have received as evidenced by a work of our flesh . We simply make the faith of Christ that continues to work in us to no effect. If he has begun it in us we will receive our new incorruptible bodies .

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen "is not hope": for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered .Roman 8:24-26

 

[Noose]

No, because by definition, when a person speaks in tongues he does not know what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2), his understanding is unfruitful (1 Cor 14:14). This is why when tongues are spoken in public, they must be interpreted, so the church can be edified.

That's exactly what Paul is against and has tried in vein to address since 1 Cor 12/13/14. Always falling on deaf ears.

1 Cor 14: 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

Even lifeless objects shrume, lifeless objects.

 

[shrume]

That's exactly what Paul is against and has tried in vein to address since 1 Cor 12/13/14. Always falling on deaf ears.

1 Cor 14: 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

Even lifeless objects shrume, lifeless objects.

Paul is addressing tongues being spoken in public. When tongues are spoken in public, they must be interpreted.

 

[garee]

This one misrepresents Paul.

You speak to God because no man understands what you are saying (verse 2)
The mind is unfruitful because you are unable to transfer what you know to others (verse 14)
Non of the above is a complement but a rebuke. The gifts of the holy spirit are never personal but are for profiting others within the body of Christ. So, when Paul says that when someone speaks things unknown to others, it only benefits them or they are speaking mysteries, he is not commending them but rebuking them.

1 Cor 14: 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

I would like to know, when you speak in tongues today, do you use intelligible words? (verse 9)

Tongues is God speaking brining His revelations as prophecy in all languages and not just Hebrew, as before the reformation .

It was a sign to the rebellious Jews.as a unseen sign of a new contrite heart that can believe God not seen. God with stammering lips mocking those who mocked him refusing to hear his word..... in exchange for there very own newly created oral tradition of men, (new innovation) making the word of God without effect .Mocking God who gave it

 

[shrume]

Tongues is God speaking brining His revelations as prophecy in all languages and not just Hebrew, as before the reformation .

This is still not true, garee. Tongues is not God speaking, it is people speaking to God (1 Cor 14:2). Tongues is not prophesy. They are different manifestations.

 

[Noose]

Paul is addressing tongues being spoken in public. When tongues are spoken in public, they must be interpreted.

Nope.

The question is; how does someone speak intelligible words with their tongue?!
And is it what you do today?

 

[garee]

That's exactly what Paul is against and has tried in vein to address since 1 Cor 12/13/14. Always falling on deaf ears.

1 Cor 14: 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

Even lifeless objects shrume, lifeless objects.

Amen. A verse that is overlooked by those who seek after the things of the flesh (the temporal) and not the Spirit unseen,(the faith law) the eternal

Yes, the gift is two fold, as it works in the speaker giving the hearer as stranger the ears to hear what the Spirit is saying, as God's understanding . Then when the hearer in turn speaks to the other person as a stranger speaking another language. it makes the two way conversation, complete or perfect. In the end both edifying God who gave it by the mutual faith (Christ's) working in both.

Today they have real time devices that can help two different languages commune with each other .

God for over two thousand years h is no longer brining new prophecy .

Why go above that which is written other than in order to give them fleshly confidence they have the Holy Spirit?

Those who do want to seek after their own flesh, as some sort of outward eveidence they can falsely boast in are spoken of as a evil generation (natural unconverted men) that seeks after signs and wonders or sighs that caiuses wonders. Mysteries that are made known through parables.

 

[shrume]

Paul is addressing tongues being spoken in public. When tongues are spoken in public, they must be interpreted.

Nope.

5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
27) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

The question is; how does someone speak intelligible words with their tongue?!

By speaking his known language.

And is it what you do today?

I speak in tongues to God, and speak in tongues and interpret in the church, and pray in my known language.

 

[Noose]

This is still not true, garee. Tongues is not God speaking, it is people speaking to God (1 Cor 14:2). Tongues is not prophesy. They are different manifestations.

What about people who don't have the ability to speak?

Matt 6: 7 And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

John 16: 23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

No one needs to speak to God. God already knew you before you were born, there's nothing new you are about to say to Him let alone in unknown language. Tongues ceased or rather are the many languages being spoken today.

 

[Noose]

5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
27) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Think of it like " i would that ye all speak genuine tongues..." because Paul is against what they were doing. Yes, it would be good if they all did what is right but they were not, the reason Paul told them prophesy would be better.

Unknown earthly languages can also be interpreted.

By speaking his known language.

So now you agree that tongues are earthly languages.
So next time, speak intelligible words with your tongue otherwise you'll be speaking into the air.

I speak in tongues to God, and speak in tongues and interpret in the church, and pray in my known language.

Paul says you are speaking to the air. There's no language in this world without meaning.
Speaking unknown words and then interpreting is a complete waste of time.

 

[PS]

There's no physical manifestation of the Holy spirit (my point); that means talking in tongues is not a sign of the indwelling of the Holy spirit. The things you have mentioned are not observed, the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, and temperance are within someone's heart. What manifests physically is different from what's in the heart because the spirit and the flesh are always antagonists.

Most rapists and serial killers would appear loving and meek to their victims.

Most rapists and serial killers might appear loving and meek to their victims but their actions, that are a reflection of what is in their heart, would prove otherwise.

Ye shall know them by their fruits (Matthew 7) AND, the fruits of the spirit (the Holy Spirit) as has already been said are:- love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, and temperance.

 

[shrume]

Think of it like " i would that ye all speak genuine tongues..."

When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking genuine tongues.

because Paul is against what they were doing.

Paul was against their all speaking in tongues at once out loud.

Yes, it would be good if they all did what is right but they were not, the reason Paul told them prophesy would be better.

Prophesy is "better" only if tongues spoken out loud is not interpreted.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Unknown earthly languages can also be interpreted.

That's true.

So now you agree that tongues are earthly languages.

Tongues is a language of men or of angels (1 or 13:1).

So next time, speak intelligible words with your tongue otherwise you'll be speaking into the air.

When I speak in tongues in public, I will interpret.

Paul says you are speaking to the air.

Which is why when tongues is spoken in public it must be interpreted.

There's no language in this world without meaning.

That's true.

Speaking unknown words and then interpreting is a complete waste of time.

Not according to the Bible.

 

[garee]

This is still not true, garee. Tongues is not God speaking, it is people speaking to God (1 Cor 14:2). Tongues is not prophesy. They are different manifestations.

I would offer. It has much to do as to how we define the words. Change the meaning of one word... change the direction of the gospel

If I am hearing you aright. It would seem you are dividing prophecy from prophecy.

Previously prophecy came through the Hebrew language up until the time of reformation.
I see that more as prophecy.... men speaking as God puts his words on the lips of His sent ones, he informs us He is watching to make sure men who speak, do understand the words he put their lips .

It is then that the Spirit can perform that which he requires of us as he does work in us to both will and do His good pleasure (imputed righteousness)

Excellent example with Jerimiah when God first called out that apostle.

Then the word of the Lord came unto me, (not from Jerimiah, not from Peter ) saying,Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord.Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree.Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it Jerimaiah 1: 4-12

The rod of a Almond tree in that Parable reveales the spiritual understanding hid . The rod used against those who refuse to hear prophecy .He was making sure Jeramiah did not add to His word of prophecy

Tongues (prophecy) God speaking in other languages other than that Hebrew alone is one manner or manifestation.

There are different manifestation as manners of prophecy. He spoke drawing straws or the giving lots when Matthias replaced Judas as one manner (not putting his seal of approval on gambling) or like with Gideon, new prophecy by using s Sheep fleece . a parable. Or using the rod of Arron, all manners as manifitations by which God separated believers from unbelievers (no faith)

 

[yellowcanary]

Paul says you are speaking to the air. There's no language in this world without meaning.
Speaking unknown words and then interpreting is a complete waste of time.

And to press his point further, Paul goes on to say:

1 Corinthians 14

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

 

[shrume]

Tongues (prophecy) God speaking in other languages other than that Hebrew alone is one manner or manifestation.

Speaking in tongues is not prophesy, garee. Also, tongues is not God speaking, it is people speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2).

 

[shrume]

And to press his point further, Paul goes on to say:

1 Corinthians 14

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

That's because unless tongues is interpreted, it will be meaningless to those who hear it.

 

[Noose]

When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking genuine tongues.


Paul was against their all speaking in tongues at once out loud.


Prophesy is "better" only if tongues spoken out loud is not interpreted.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Nope.

Paul is against speaking words with no meaning.

1 Cor 14: 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

You seem confused. I have asked, how do you speak intelligible words with your tongue and you told me with your own known language- but you keep quoting me verse 5. So does Paul want us to speak unknown words or intelligible words (verse 9)?

 

[Noose]

Most rapists and serial killers might appear loving and meek to their victims but their actions, that are a reflection of what is in their heart, would prove otherwise.

Ye shall know them by their fruits (Matthew 7) AND, the fruits of the spirit (the Holy Spirit) as has already been said are:- love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, and temperance.

And that's why it is not advisable to say He is saved and she is not saved based on the outward self.

The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs.

 

[PS]

And that's why it is not advisable to say He is saved and she is not saved based on the outward self.

The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs.

The alcoholic turned tee-total, the convict who never committed another crime are the visible evidence of a changed life.

 

[yellowcanary]

That's because unless tongues is interpreted, it will be meaningless to those who hear it.

Unless one knows what is being said in private tongues as well, it too is meaningless, isn't it ? Or is understanding over-rated ?

God knows the very thoughts of our hearts ... regardless of what language is used to express them to Him. Agreed ? So what was their purpose except to those hearing for being presented with the wondrous works of God in Christ ... that they might come to the faith ? None other than this.

Exactly what is meant by self-edification ? Is it uttering words not understood in prayer ? How is that edifying in any way, shape or form ? Is it simply ... hey, I can speak in a language I don't understand. How cool is that ?

None are edified by something not understood. Like Paul said ... it's meaningless clanging symbols.