"Salvation is not a gift". Then is it earned? Bought? Deserved?
Perhaps you'd like to unpack what you mean.
Speaking in tongues
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"Salvation is not a gift". Then is it earned? Bought? Deserved?
Perhaps you'd like to unpack what you mean.
If the Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from death, lives in you, then he who raised Christ from death will also give life to your mortal bodies by the presence of his Spirit in you. (Rom 8:11 GNB)
It was the Father who raised Jesus from the dead. The Spirit of the Father is the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, NOT Jesus.
You say " Without the Holy Spirit no man is saved." I suggest you seek the Holy Spirit.
These are not my words, you wish they were my words.
1 Cor 14:9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
How does someone speak intelligible words with their tongue? Is that what you do or do you speak incomprehensible words with your tongue?
All i'm saying is that salvation is God's doing; He convicts the heart of a man and gives them the desire to know Him (God). But we are not to follow man's outward claims for the flesh and the heart are two antagonists.
How many people can claim that they are saved and how many are really saved?
This is an interesting paradox. Scripture does say that in that time everyone who received the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues. But not long afterward, Paul said that even though he wished we all would do it, not all of us will. So scripture goes from everyone, to wishing everyone, to no not everyone. Very contradictory in our world. But instead of playing A against C, is there an answer that makes all 3 positions gel?
It is one of the seven gifts God distribute among the believers. And the thing is that whatever gift that person has ,no one can tell them that they don't unless they have the same gift.
Jesus saves, the Holy Spirit seals and the gift of tongues is the evidence.
There is also the fruit of the Spirit which people should see in our daily life, they are:
love,
joy,
peace,
longsuffering,
gentleness,
goodness,
faith,
Meekness,
temperance.
(Gal 5:22-24 KJV)
The evidence is not in 1 Cor 13 itself even though it alludes to cessation of genuine gifts. You have to understand scripture in totality rather than dwell on a concept by concept basis. We know the Antichrist comes and he comes with all kinds of display of signs and wonders and we also know that believers are his target. We know that this displays will be in the church settings and multiple warnings are there from Jesus Himself- He says that even the elect will fall for these strong lies 'if it were possible'. The words that Jesus uses when He says even the elect will fall for it if it were possible means that they will actually fall for it only that they will be guided out of it in a manner that they wouldn't even realize it.
Daniel saw it in his visions- he said some of the elect will fall so that they are purified but he also said some will join the camp of antichrist because they completely fall for the lie.
Paul described it as a very strong delusion that befalls the world.
But in the face of all these false wonders and signs in the world and even in the churches, how does God intend to work through the gifts (genuine signs & wonders)?
It is not possible that God will work genuine signs here when there are fake signs there, it is God that has granted the antichrist the authority to rule the world for a limited time.
So God now works within the believers and that's the reason Jesus said:
John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you.
John 16:12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
..... 23In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.
To me, these verse show clearly what the Holy spirit does, He gives us the truth and when we have the truth (which counters the antichrist's lies) we shall not need any thing. This is the perfect that 1 Cor 13 is talking about. This truth can not come with public displays because the world can not understand- if it is healing it happens within us/ if it is prophesy, we will have the understanding within us, there's absolutely no need for tongues and all these is in fulfillment of:
Jer 31:33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD, I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity and remember their sins nomore.”
John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him,because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
John 3:7 Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hearits sound, but you do not know where it comes fromor where it is going. So it is with everyone born ofthe Spirit.”
IOW, there's no evidence for the Holy spirit but only an understanding. You don't understand.
Public visible displays are evidence for something else.
That is not what I was saying. However, I will dwell on the point you are making as it is appropriate to this thread. Jesus was saying to Nicodemus, “You don’t understand everything about the wind, but you see its effects. "I am telling you the truth: no one can see the Kingdom of God without being born again." What happens when we are born again? We become a new person in Christ, the old man is gone and the fruits of the spirit namely love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, and temperance are manifest in our life for all to see.
Quite frankly, if I do not see this change in a person, I worry about their salvation and just as the fruits of the spirit are one sign, the speaking of tongues is another sign that the person has been sealed by the Holy Spirit, as confirmed by the interpretation. All of which is evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit, which like the wind cannot be seen, but its effects can be seen in the life of the born again child of God.
There's no physical manifestation of the Holy spirit (my point); that means talking in tongues is not a sign of the indwelling of the Holy spirit. The things you have mentioned are not observed, the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, and temperance are within someone's heart. What manifests physically is different from what's in the heart because the spirit and the flesh are always antagonists.
Most rapists and serial killers would appear loving and meek to their victims.
You keep using the word 'saved' wrongly.
Even from language perspective, the word 'saved' can not be used the way you are trying to use it. No one is saved until they are saved.
-Saved from what? Eternal damnation? when is this eternal damnation- is it future or past?
-You can't say "i fought' when you are still fighting
-You can't say "i ran" when you are still running
-And you certainly have no right to say "i'm saved" when God is still carrying out His salvation work in you. This kind of pride is not needed.
2 Tim 3:14 But as for you, continue in the things you have learned andfirmly believed, since you know from whom you learned them. 15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Col 1:22 But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— 23 if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Salvation is God's work and it all happens in your heart. Even though we have assurance through the faith, it is not our part to declare saved or not saved but we patiently wait because faith also hopes for the promises.
This one misrepresents Paul.
You speak to God because no man understands what you are saying (verse 2)
The mind is unfruitful because you are unable to transfer what you know to others (verse 14)
Non of the above is a complement but a rebuke. The gifts of the holy spirit are never personal but are for profiting others within the body of Christ. So, when Paul says that when someone speaks things unknown to others, it only benefits them or they are speaking mysteries, he is not commending them but rebuking them.
1 Cor 14: 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
I would like to know, when you speak in tongues today, do you use intelligible words? (verse 9)
No, because by definition, when a person speaks in tongues he does not know what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2), his understanding is unfruitful (1 Cor 14:14). This is why when tongues are spoken in public, they must be interpreted, so the church can be edified.