John Chapter 3 REFUTES Five Point Calvinism
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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I don't consider myself a Calvinist. I consider myself a brother in Christ with you who think differently than me about this.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
this is about the only gripe I have with fatalism, Well that an evil being Gods will..
To be fair there is underlying truth in all five points of Calvinism. The problem is that modern Calvinists have moved away from the scriptural truths and inserted a doctrinal position that departs from the scriptures.
Calvinism is not more important than the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God to bring men to salvation. Calvinism or any ism is not the power of God to bring men to a saving knowledge of God.
Too many folks are more concerned about which ism they are part of than making certain that converts are given good sound bible doctrine to disciple them in the Lord Jesus. Teach them the book and teach them about Jesus and leave men out of it. Please.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think they are also busy trying to figure out which ism others are in, so they can refute them with what they have been taught. and thus lines of communication are broken and shattered. Because it becomes us against them, not ok, what is that person saying, I want to understand so I can better communicate with him.
They cannot be discipled before they are saved. Goats are not discipled only sheep.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
They do have the free will to choose sound doctrine if they wish. Anyone who distorts the true Gospel of Grace will give account for misleading others.
Hi eternally-gratefull, the Bible agrees, I believe .. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3 God has to change our hearts, change us, before we can respond to Him in faith.
~Deut
That's true for all of us, no matter what doctrine we hold to and teach as the truth: Calvinism vs free will, the dead are dead or not, hell is a place of eternal torments or permanent death, tongues ceased or not, etc...
Are you prepared?
...just sayin.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
the question is, How does he change our hearts?
By Magic
Or by people, the word. circumstances in life, and the HS
I believe the second.
God is willing to give anyone a new heart if they choose to believe on Jesus Christ.
He wants all men to repent.
There's a lot more. But even this should suffice. We could go into lengthy dissertations about the true doctrine, but that's not going to make any difference unless a person wants the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Well what's your objection to this (John 3:36)?
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Who does the believing? The sinner who responds to the Gospel.
Who does the saving? God Himself.
Everlasting (or eternal) life is God's gift to the sinner who repents and believes.
God gives faith and He distributes the measure of faith to all men (Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith).
I believe this means that all mankind is given this measure of faith. That is how each person has what is needed to not reject the truth of the gospel when it is shared with him or her.
And that is why those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse. They have been given what is necessary and needed in order to believe, but they suppress the truth when it is spoken to them.
Rom 10:17 tells us faith by hearing. The word "by" here is the Greek word ek and it means from, out of.
Rom 10:17 also tells us hearing by the word of God. the word "by" here is the Greek word dia and it denotes the means by which an action passes to its accomplishment.
So when a person "hears" the word of God and does not suppress the truth, God works within that person to accomplish that which His Word intends ... i.e. He brings the increase to that person (1 Cor 3:7). The person who does not suppress the truth has his or her faith strengthened by God as He works in accordance with 1 Cor 3:7.
When a person "hears" the word of God and suppresses the truth, God does not bring the increase and the person remains with "little" faith. He or she is "weak" in faith.
I do not understand why a person not suppressing the truth in unrighteousness equals that person being born again by his or her own will.PennEd said:
God gives faith to all so that when they hear the gospel of salvation they do not reject it. When the gospel is not rejected and the gospel rests in the heart where God brings the increase, how does this in any way, shape, or form mean that this is not the Will of God?
Hi eternally-gratefull/shrume, how can a person who needs a new heart (a person the Bible describes as being "dead" spiritually .. Ephesians 2:1-3) choose to come to faith in Christ w/o it? For that matter, how can the dead "do" anything?
Both the Lord and St. Paul describe those who are outside of Christ in terms such as these:
.........John 3
.........3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
.........Romans 3
.........9 .....both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
.........10 as it is written,
.........“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
.........11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
.........THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
.........12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
.........THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
.........THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
.........1 Corinthians 1
.........18 The word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
........1 Corinthians 2
........14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot
........understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
How can a natural man or woman, whose heart has not been quickened/regenerated to life by God .. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3, who cannot understand or accept or see the things of God (because such things require a spiritual, rather than a natural, appraisal to accept/understand or even see/perceive) ever choose God? Why would they choose to do so (accept something that, when properly presented to them, seems at best, "foolishness", to them)?
Thanks!
~Deut
.........Ephesians 2
.........1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
.........2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air,
.........of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
.........3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind,
.........and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
.........4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
.........5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).
Do you believe as some others, that God saves a person before he can understand enough of the gospel to receive the Holy Spirit?
If so, how does God determine who He will save?
"His Sovereign will"?
I don't buy it....
We teach the gospel so people can hear it, and give them the opportunity to believe. Once they believe, they receive the Holy Spirit, and become saved.