John Chapter 3 REFUTES Five Point Calvinism
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The tax collector did not either, God had to show him everything he needed, yet he showed the pharisee the same things, The tax collector did not have some special gift that allowed him to see. He was offered the same thing the pharisee was, He chose yes, the pharisee chose no.
You act as if no one else thinks that way. I think you are so drawn in, it is hard for you to see anything else. I say this, because you keep making remarks that you believe something, and say it as if no one else does but you.
You act as if no one else thinks that way. I think you are so drawn in, it is hard for you to see anything else. I say this, because you keep making remarks that you believe something, and say it as if no one else does but you.
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it is freely given to all. But not all will recieve it, as jesus said, not all is willing.
free will is not a dirty word. You can not have a relationship without it. God proved this by giving his creation free will to begin with (but of this tree, you will not eat)
if you can not chose to walk away, You can not chose to stay, your a robot. and there is no relationship, because you can never appreciate what you have.
free will is not a dirty word. You can not have a relationship without it. God proved this by giving his creation free will to begin with (but of this tree, you will not eat)
if you can not chose to walk away, You can not chose to stay, your a robot. and there is no relationship, because you can never appreciate what you have.
Does the verse have to say that, when it is automatically IMPLIED? And are there not many things in Scripture which are implied?
Since there is nothing qualifying believing it is implied that ALL may either believe or disbelieve. Had the verse said "He that is elect and believeth..." and "He that is not elect and does not believe..." you would have reason to question what was stated.
Since there is nothing qualifying believing it is implied that ALL may either believe or disbelieve. Had the verse said "He that is elect and believeth..." and "He that is not elect and does not believe..." you would have reason to question what was stated.
You make valid points, and I'm certainly not going to judge the hearts of men for salvation or lack thereof.
This is my experience. I absolutely confessed that I was a sinner and absolutely knew that Jesus is the Son of God, God in the flesh, and that He was crucified, died to pay my sin debt, and rose on the 3rd day.
But I didn't have an instantaneous lifestyle change. Many of the old sins were not totally put away. At this time I thought that if I sinned too much that I would lose salvation. I tried very hard to stop doing various bad behavior. The more I tried, the more entangled I seemed to get.
After yrs in this battle, I very suddenly had the overwhelming thought and feeling that I was lost and no longer saved.
I felt huge condemnation. So much so, that for the better part of a decade I wanted nothing to do with Church, God, the Bible etc... Because all the condemnation came back when I did.
But once again, the Lord eventually drew me back and retrieved me from that awful life. Why? Because I am His Child! He left the 99 and went and got me.
I can look back now and literally see Romans 8:28 at work. I KNOW now that I am forever His, and the incredible thing is that revelation has done infinitely more for me to walk in the Spirit and not sin, then all my struggle and effort!
So I understand your concern about an intellectual assent, and not a true conversion. I will leave that issue dealing with others to the Lord. He will NOT lose a single one of His sheep. I believe Him.
This is my experience. I absolutely confessed that I was a sinner and absolutely knew that Jesus is the Son of God, God in the flesh, and that He was crucified, died to pay my sin debt, and rose on the 3rd day.
But I didn't have an instantaneous lifestyle change. Many of the old sins were not totally put away. At this time I thought that if I sinned too much that I would lose salvation. I tried very hard to stop doing various bad behavior. The more I tried, the more entangled I seemed to get.
After yrs in this battle, I very suddenly had the overwhelming thought and feeling that I was lost and no longer saved.
I felt huge condemnation. So much so, that for the better part of a decade I wanted nothing to do with Church, God, the Bible etc... Because all the condemnation came back when I did.
But once again, the Lord eventually drew me back and retrieved me from that awful life. Why? Because I am His Child! He left the 99 and went and got me.
I can look back now and literally see Romans 8:28 at work. I KNOW now that I am forever His, and the incredible thing is that revelation has done infinitely more for me to walk in the Spirit and not sin, then all my struggle and effort!
So I understand your concern about an intellectual assent, and not a true conversion. I will leave that issue dealing with others to the Lord. He will NOT lose a single one of His sheep. I believe Him.
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Where does that verse mention a person is saved because they decided to believe?
It doesn't say that. You are trying to make it say that because of your wrong philosophy.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
There is Salvation and how it is attained as told by the Bible. Not peoples wishful philosophy.
You are saved through faith. This doesn't come from you. It is the Gift of God.
This one small verse pretty much dis-proves all your other faulty philosophy and is the back-bone of people who believe in the goodness of God and not the goodness and wisdom of their own self.
It doesn't say that. You are trying to make it say that because of your wrong philosophy.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
There is Salvation and how it is attained as told by the Bible. Not peoples wishful philosophy.
You are saved through faith. This doesn't come from you. It is the Gift of God.
This one small verse pretty much dis-proves all your other faulty philosophy and is the back-bone of people who believe in the goodness of God and not the goodness and wisdom of their own self.
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The two things are not even remotely similar. Calvinists think it was God's will for those things I listed above to happen. At the sheep & goat judgment, people will be judged according to how they chose to live and believe. It is THEIR responsibility to decide how to live, THEIR choices that they will be judged for. God is not in any way responsible for how people choose to live. He is not responsible for peoples' unbelief.
When a person is saved God seals them with the gift of the Holy Spirit. And Eph 1:13 says that happens after (or when) a person hears the gospel and believes it.
In Eph 2:8-9, the gift is not faith, but salvation (cp Rom 6:23), which we receive BY faith.
And please explain how God is good if it is His responsibility and within His power to save people, but He only saves some, while leaving others to die in their sins. Again, see 1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9; Eze 33:11.
In Eph 2:8-9, the gift is not faith, but salvation (cp Rom 6:23), which we receive BY faith.
And please explain how God is good if it is His responsibility and within His power to save people, but He only saves some, while leaving others to die in their sins. Again, see 1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9; Eze 33:11.
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