Not By Works

[justpassinthrough]

You have the WRONG INTERPRETATION again. James DOES NOT CONTRADICT Eph. 2:8-9, and Titus 3:5-7.

Of course James didn't contradict Ehesians 2 or Titus 3 or Romans 4.

Scripture does not contradict scripture.


In Romans 4, Paul is referring to the works of the law, in which by keeping the works of the law, some thought they could "earn" their salvation.


27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Romans 3:27-4:5



The works James is referring to is the obedience of faith, not the works of the law or good works of righteousness.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



This is called the obedience of faith -


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

• the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Remember how the woman with the issue of blood was healed.


The obedience of faith: Doing what the Lord speaks to us to do.




JPT

 

[BillG]

Actually I agreed with you.


I would say they did do it for Him, in obedience to His Life within them, as He moved upon them with His love and compassion.


They love Him, and demonstrate their love for Him by loving people.

So why go at me in the first place
You say to me

The answer, to those who are honest is found in the very words of Jesus that you plainly ignore.

BTW, I owe you an apology.
I called you a nasty piece of work in post 66,490.

That was not Godly or honourable or uplifting.

Sorry jpt I should not have said that

 

[theanointedsinner]

Of course James didn't contradict Ehesians 2 or Titus 3 or Romans 4.

Scripture does not contradict scripture.


In Romans 4, Paul is referring to the works of the law, in which by keeping the works of the law, some thought they could "earn" their salvation.


27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Romans 3:27-4:5



The works James is referring to is the obedience of faith, not the works of the law or good works of righteousness.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



This is called the obedience of faith -


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

• the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Remember how the woman with the issue of blood was healed.


The obedience of faith: Doing what the Lord speaks to us to do.




JPT

obedience is not works, instead it's obeying James 4:17 in your perspective, "if you know the good you OUGHT to do ..." is that what you are thinking?

 

[justpassinthrough]

No he was justified by faith that led him to to offer Isaac.
His works or willingness to offer Isaac was as a result of his faith

Of course it was a result of his faith.


That's how we get faith, by hearing God speak to us.


He was justified when he obeyed the word of faith that God spoke to him.



Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you. Genesis 22:1-2


Abraham now has faith.


His faith justified him when he offered Issac on the altar.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

BTW, I owe you an apology.
I called you a nasty piece of work in post 66,490.

That was not Godly or honourable or uplifting.

Sorry jpt I should not have said that

I love you to bro.

 

[justpassinthrough]

So why go at me in the first place
You say to me

The answer, to those who are honest is found in the very words of Jesus that you plainly ignore.

I apologize if this offended you, I wanted you to see what Jesus is saying to His people on the Day of Judgement.


I will try to do better.



JPT

 

[TruthTalk]

Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Amen NoName, only someone teaching a false works gospel would say our Father Abraham was justified by works. As Abraham was Justified by faith, so too are we Justified by faith. A difficult lesson for some to learn.

Romans4:3
What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

 

[justpassinthrough]

Amen NoName, only someone teaching a false works gospel would say our Father Abraham was justified by works. As Abraham was "Justified" by faith, so too are we Justified by faith. A difficult lesson for some to learn.

Romans4:3

What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."​

C'mon bro, please just read what James is saying, and see that the word works is not a reference to the law of Moses or "good works", but rather James is referring to the obedience of faith.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


Works here is obedience of faith, not works that earn or works of the law.




JPT

 

[theanointedsinner]

C'mon bro, please just read what James is saying, and see that the word works is not a reference to the law of Moses or "good works", but rather James is referring to the obedience of faith.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


Works here is obedience of faith, not works that earn or works of the law.




JPT

Mr. JPT obedience is not works, instead it's obeying James 4:17 in your perspective, "if you know the good you OUGHT to do ..." is that what you are thinking?

 

[justpassinthrough]

obedience is not works, instead it's obeying James 4:17 in your perspective, "if you know the good you OUGHT to do ..." is that what you are thinking?

Yes sir, it is obeying the Truth within us: The Spirit of Truth.


Faith works.


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:6


I like the way the NIV says it -


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Mr. JPT obedience is not works,

Tell that to Noah.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


Ok, question for you, sir.


Who saved Noah's household?


God
Noah
God and Noah
The animals
Some angels
Hillary Clinton




JPT

 

[theanointedsinner]

Yes sir, it is obeying the Truth within us: The Spirit of Truth.


Faith works.


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:6


I like the way the NIV says it -


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.



JPT

if you have been speaking the truth but people keep misunderstanding you

I know how disciples feel, and you probably know how jesus might feel on John 16:29

John 16:29 New International Version (NIV)

29 Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech.

 

[theanointedsinner]

Tell that to Noah.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


Ok, question for you, sir.


Who saved Noah's household?


God
Noah
God and Noah
The animals
Some angels
Hillary Clinton




JPT

back in the day of Noah's flood, God commanded Noah to build the wooden boat for 120 years, Noah was constantly mocked, ridiculed as a fool, ... long story short, God's plan saved Noah, Noah obeyed God, by placing his faith on the fact that rain (what rain, never seen one) will drown the earth, wipe out mass amount of nonbelievers, and spared Noah from the flood

faith in God's plan saved Noah
who? God (indirectly)

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Amen NoName, only someone teaching a false works gospel would say our Father Abraham was justified by works. As Abraham was Justified by faith, so too are we Justified by faith. A difficult lesson for some to learn.

Romans4:3
What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

it's clear as day

 

[justpassinthrough]

back in the day of Noah's flood, God commanded Noah to build the wooden boat for 120 years, Noah was constantly mocked, ridiculed as a fool, ... long story short, God's plan saved Noah, Noah obeyed God, by placing his faith on the fact that rain (what rain, never seen one) will drown the earth, wipe out mass amount of nonbelievers, and spared Noah from the flood

faith in God's plan saved Noah
who? God (indirectly)

Noah moving with godly fear prepared an Ark.

God gave him strength and wisdom and favor with the animals.


Of course we can all agree that the greatest miracle was getting Noah’s kids to help.



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

it's clear as day

I agree, it is clear as day.

• Abraham our father justified by works

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



JPT

 

[theanointedsinner]

Noah moving with godly fear prepared an Ark. <-- same for sinners who pray for salvation and mean it, conviction of sin and godly fear

God gave him strength and wisdom and favor with the animals. <-- similar to God helping the sinner pray the sinner's prayer, and God's power of sincerity made sure that the sinner is saved


Of course we can all agree that the greatest miracle was getting Noah’s kids to help. <-- I like your sense of humor here



JPT

this forum is like Noah's flood, stormy, till the day when the flood receded enough, everything will become as clear as day, althought there's no rainbow in this forum to promise that it won't be stormy and cloudy again, it's all in a good day's work, to understand the seemingly difficult to understand.

 

[mailmandan]

I agree, it is clear as day.

• Abraham our father justified by works

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

JPT

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."

*Keep in mind that James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

 

[benhur]

i can see what you imply

and im pointing to your errors

anyone can copy and paste verses

but you believe them to mean things they do not mean....


i have had maybe 35-50 back and forths with you

so if i see you post a verse

i know youre trying to impute false meaning to it (wether this is intentional or not i do not know)

If you are pointing to my errors, then do it.

It is difficult to come to very many extra meanings out of the 3 verses I posted. Very difficult. What meaning do you get out of them that is different than mine?

That is the problem, you automatically throw up a barrier when yo see me post a verse, because you know I will impute false meaning.
Again, the thoughts I posted and you responded so silly to, are very very difficult to have many meanings.

So try it again, how am I in error? I am saying believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. I confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus. I call upon the name of the Lord. Show me my error. If there is no error, be humble enought to admit it.

 

[theanointedsinner]

If you are pointing to my errors, then do it.

It is difficult to come to very many extra meanings out of the 3 verses I posted. Very difficult. What meaning do you get out of them that is different than mine?

That is the problem, you automatically throw up a barrier when yo see me post a verse, because you know I will impute false meaning.
Again, the thoughts I posted and you responded so silly to, are very very difficult to have many meanings.

So try it again, how am I in error? I am saying believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. I confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus. I call upon the name of the Lord. Show me my error. If there is no error, be humble enought to admit it.

If there is no error, be humble enought to admit it.

^dude man, that can be blunt and harsh

you need to gently guide ...

like, how to "swallow one's pride", etc.